My father was caught doing 19km/h they say in a speed trap back in October. We filed to go to trial and are now waiting for the letter of date of trial. I remember vividly of the day of the offence was committed. 15 degrees with winds blowing westward of 22 km. The officer was working alone and he had the radar on some stand. The traffic on Bayview that day was pretty congested both ways as it was an Sunday afternoon. everything on the ticket seems to be accurate. I need some advices on how to approach this ticket. I haven't requested a disclosure or public records yet, should I go do that tomorrow? I'll keep this thread updated as soon as I get the notice mail.
My father was caught doing 19km/h they say in a speed trap back in October. We filed to go to trial and are now waiting for the letter of date of trial.
I remember vividly of the day of the offence was committed.
15 degrees with winds blowing westward of 22 km.
The officer was working alone and he had the radar on some stand. The traffic on Bayview that day was pretty congested both ways as it was an Sunday afternoon.
everything on the ticket seems to be accurate.
I need some advices on how to approach this ticket. I haven't requested a disclosure or public records yet, should I go do that tomorrow?
I'll keep this thread updated as soon as I get the notice mail.
Once you get the Notice of Trial with a trial date on it, is usually when you then request disclosure (notes of all officers involved, manual for speed measuring device).
Once you get the Notice of Trial with a trial date on it, is usually when you then request disclosure (notes of all officers involved, manual for speed measuring device).
Once you have disclosure you have a better idea of what you're looking at. Side note, if the device was on a stand or tripod it was most likely a laser.
Once you have disclosure you have a better idea of what you're looking at. Side note, if the device was on a stand or tripod it was most likely a laser.
Ask for a copy of notes from all officers involved, a copy of the manual for the speed measuring device used, a copy of proof of officers training and qualifications to use the speed measuring device, a copy of any will-say and witness statements, and a copy of any audio/video.
Ask for a copy of notes from all officers involved, a copy of the manual for the speed measuring device used, a copy of proof of officers training and qualifications to use the speed measuring device, a copy of any will-say and witness statements, and a copy of any audio/video.
Based on your description of the incident, there won't be any witness statements, you'll get a copy of the testing instructions for the speed measuring device and it's not likely you'll get proof of the officers training and qualifications.
Based on your description of the incident, there won't be any witness statements, you'll get a copy of the testing instructions for the speed measuring device and it's not likely you'll get proof of the officers training and qualifications.
by any chance do you know why I won't be able to get proof of the officer's training and qualifications?
Decatur wrote:
Based on your description of the incident, there won't be any witness statements, you'll get a copy of the testing instructions for the speed measuring device and it's not likely you'll get proof of the officers training and qualifications.
by any chance do you know why I won't be able to get proof of the officer's training and qualifications?
Ontario courts seem to side with the decision that all an officer has to do is say "I am a qualified operator of the radar/lidar device". The officer said it, so it must be true! The same goes for the radar/lidar itself... all the officer has to say is "I believe the device was working properly at the time". The officer said it, so it must be true! Anyways, my opinion is that you need to ask for the information, and argue why you need it. When they do not give it to you, then during the trial and cross-examination you can say at some point "well I wanted to ask the officer about XYZ but I was not provided ABC information that I requested, I am unable to pursue that any farther." This may not help at the trial itself, but is very important on an appeal because you now have a record of not only asking for specific disclosure (and it being denied) but you always have a record of where/why in the trial you would have used it but were unable to.
Ontario courts seem to side with the decision that all an officer has to do is say "I am a qualified operator of the radar/lidar device". The officer said it, so it must be true!
The same goes for the radar/lidar itself... all the officer has to say is "I believe the device was working properly at the time". The officer said it, so it must be true!
Anyways, my opinion is that you need to ask for the information, and argue why you need it. When they do not give it to you, then during the trial and cross-examination you can say at some point "well I wanted to ask the officer about XYZ but I was not provided ABC information that I requested, I am unable to pursue that any farther." This may not help at the trial itself, but is very important on an appeal because you now have a record of not only asking for specific disclosure (and it being denied) but you always have a record of where/why in the trial you would have used it but were unable to.
It's not just about training and qualifications. Just because someone has completed training or a course, doesn't mean they are competent in that field. You'll have an opportunity to ask the officer about their training when you cross examine them. The JP can then make a decision about where the officer was qualified to use the device.
It's not just about training and qualifications. Just because someone has completed training or a course, doesn't mean they are competent in that field. You'll have an opportunity to ask the officer about their training when you cross examine them. The JP can then make a decision about where the officer was qualified to use the device.
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