Bloor and St. Pauls SQ 182(2)

As the title reads, I just received my very first ticket ever! Ive been driving for 18 years and I'd hate to see my record be blemished by this.

Regardless, here is my situation.

I was driving west on Bloor St around 9:15 Saturday morning heading towards Church St. Before Church St, there's a side street (St. Pauls SQ)where I usually make a right to bypass all that traffic at the intersection of Bloor and Church. To my surprise i was pulled over and given a ticket of Disobeying a Sign 182 (2).

From my experience with that turn, I was positive that I can make that turn. After i received the ticket, I passed by the sign to read it over. It said no right turns M - F 7pm - 7am and anytime Sat/Sun.

The way I see it, it's crazy that you can't turn there on Sat/Sun cause there's residential housing just around the bend. So If a taxi needed to pick you up from your house, he can't turn in there?? Weird!!

Should I pay or set up a trial date?? Suggestions?? Thank you!

That's a weird one... if you pay you'd get 2 demerit points plus the possibility of an insurance increase (maybe not because you have an unblemished record).

Another option is setting up a trial and looking for a plea-bargain to a municipal by-law infraction. Most of them do not have demerit points so they won't go on your driving record. It's one option.

"Another option is setting up a trial and looking for a plea-bargain to a municipal by-law infraction. Most of them do not have demerit points so they won't go on your driving record. It's one option"

Can you help clarify what will or will not appear on a driving record?

- Does the charge need to be reduced to a "municiple by-law infraction"?

- Does the municiple by-law infraction need to be a NON-moving violation?

- Does it matter if there are demerit points or not?

I'm only asking because I am in a similar situation and would like to know what to plea-bargain for - i.e., what type of infraction (examples?). I don't want to accept something that will still appear on my driving record...in that case I would just try to fight the charge.

Thanks for your help...

Try to plea-bargain to a municipal "disobey sign." It does not need to be a "non-moving violation." At the very bottom of this page there's a link to the Demerit Points table which shows which municipal by-law infractions might carry demerit points. While the municipal by-law infraction does not appear on your driver record, MTO is supposed to apply demerit points for certain offences (e.g. turns prohibited by a by-law)... which are on your record. (Yeah, I know, makes no sense.)

While the sign itself may prohibit a turn, if the Prosecutor goes for the municipal disobey sign, they get some money & the conviction, you get no demerit points and no insurance increase.

Clear as mud...

I received the same ticket a few days later. A cop was camped out there just pulling anyone over. The sign is odd and has bolt through the last word "anytime". I didn't even realize I couldn't turn until the cop told me. I didn't believe him at first.

there was little to no traffic either. I can't stand these money grab tickets, for people with little income they hurt big time.

Here's the pic I took:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/47397686@N07/4346923916/

I was given same ticket at the same spot on Saturday afternoon, its disgusting to see as barcliff described that the cops virtually camped there and keep issuing all these money grab tickets to drivers running into this trap.

I cant understand the logic behind this – no right turn 7pm to 7am Mon-Fri and anytime Sat-Sun.

Since Saint Pauls Square is just a tiny side street on Bloor Street , if they prohibit right turn onto this street , they must be doing this to help the traffic flow west bound on Bloor on busy business hours and now they dont allow right turn onto St Pauls Sq at nights and on weekends???

I am going for the option of setting up a trial , and if I want to plea-bargain for a municipal 'disobey sign meaning willing to pay fine but dont want any demerit points , when and how can I do that?

I got the same ticket on October 4, 2009 and was astonished (really), because I read the sign which says very clearly No Right Turn [symbol] 7 pm-7am Mon-Fri, and since it was Sunday, I turned. I even told the officer, "It says Monday to Friday on the sign." His response revealed that he'd heard that numerous times already: "Yes, but underneath it says no turning Saturday or Sunday."

I am an editor and making copy as clear as possible is my job. The signage at this turn completely fails at communicating information effectively.

Please do as I did and write a short letter to Superintendent Earl Witty at Toronto Police Services, 9 Hanna Ave, M6K 1W8 to voice your concerns. I received a response two months later letting me know that it had been passed to Staff Inspector Sinclair of 53 Division (you could send your complaint directly to him).

I stated that the signs should be side-by-side: by the time you've finished reading the top part of the sign on a Saturday or Sunday, you've most likely already initiated the right hand turn, thinking that you were doing so quite legally.

My trial date is tomorrow at 9 AM. I'll let you know how it goes.

I was at court for one hour. When you arrive you line up outside your courtroom and give your name to the clerk, who says "You are currently charged with 'disobey sign' which carries two points, do you want to plead guilty to the lesser charge and no points?" I did. The other option is plead not guilty and go to trial.

You then proceed into the courtroom and sit until your name is called. The prosecutor reads out the charge you were originally given and that you've asked to plead guilty to the amended charge. The JP (Your Worship) then asks if you plead guilty to the lesser charge (in my case is was 4451-A Improper Stop at an Intersection) for a $50 fine and are given the option to pay now or in 30 days. I prefer to keep my money for 30 days if I have the option, so took the "green sheet" with my options on how to pay the fine later and was "free to go."

All in all, time well spent. No points, no increased insurance costs, and saving $60.

Oh, and the officer who issued the ticket was there. In some cases, for other charges, if the officer wasn't present, the charge was dropped.

I still think the signage is ineffective. Two signs side-by-side, each with a No Right Turn symbol, one with M-F info, the other with Sat-Sun info is the only was to enforce that law. But I wasn't willing to risk losing in a trial over that...

Thanks for the update. And yes, that signage is rather ridiculous, not to mention pointless as it really doesn't improve traffic flow/safety.

I was stopped for making a right hand turn off Bloor

Street on to St.Paul's Square. I have never seen a sign

like that before. By the time you read the fine print

you'd be on the other side of Bathurst.

Isn't the logic of it "No Right Turn except 7am to 7pm

Mon to Friday"

It is interesting also that I got a ticket for $18.75 with

no demerit points. So the protests of some previous

violators must have persuaded the city to change the

rules.

November 2011

I see nothing has changed ( Mar 27 2014 )

I too got pulled over for Disobey Sign

Huge $$$$ grab

The most confusing NO RIGHT TURN while driving

In LARGE Font

NO RIGHT 7pm - 7am

There must have been 5 cars pulled over with 2 officers writing tickets

As a car would pull away another would be pulled over

This is all happening on a Sun @ 1.30 in the afternoon

Yet you can make a left turn going East on Bloor to St Pauls square

Does anyone know the actual municipal bylaw that refers to "disobey sign."

I would like to plea a reduced "municipal by-law infraction" so that the charge does not appear on my record

Thx in advance for any help