“Hta 144 (9) - Time Issue”

Mikeyb any luck?

I filed my disclosure request today...

Hello All,

Finally, My girlfriend received a notice in the mail about her court date. It is set for March 1st. Which would be 10 or 11 months from the date of the offense.

No word about any disclosure. We sent the disclosure request via fax many months ago. I am planning on re-sending the request via registered mail tomorrow.

I assume postponing the trial by the 2 months for reason of no-disclosure given will allow her to get off based on the time issue?

Thanks all for the help.

mikey b

Actually, 10 months should be able to qualify you for the 11B without even referring to the disclosure. However, not having a disclosure lets you argue for stay based on "non-disclosure". The prosecutor will try to reschedule the date, and then you can double-wham him with the 11B, AND the fact that you have to come back to court, which costs you money in lost workdays.

That is great news...

Please forgive me.. What exactly is an 11B, where do I find info on that? How do I File an 11B?

Thanks for the help!

Hello again,

It has been a long wait but my girlfriend's trial date is coming up in March. We have still not received any disclosure at this point. She had faxed her first request a while ago, then after some time she had sent another request via registered mail (was received and signed for).

In a previous post, someone suggested we file papers a certain amount of time before the trial which by my calculations will be early February.

Can you please let me know the steps I need to take and the forms that I need to get in order to have the charges stayed/dropped successfully.

Thanks,

mikeyb wrote:It was in the city of Toronto and it did say Monday-Friday.

I have a feeling that you may suggest the "Bilingual Sign" defense that I read in another post? I dont believe that it was in French, if this was what you were getting at.

What are the other ways of fighting it, I am curious?

I am not hung up on the time thing as a defense as much as just amazed that a Police officer can set his watch back 5 -10 mins and suggest that his/her time is the correct time. In the case of Speeding, if my speedometer reads 60km/h and a police officer claims that I am going 100km/h, he has proof with his radar gun, which has been calibrated. Time on different clocks seems very subjective. There is no way to prove whose TIME is accurate in court, on either side.

This of course assuming that the charged person's mother language was different than the language on the sign, being either English or French and that she/he was able to prove what her mother language was and that she actually couldn't understand the language on the sign. This would be impossible to prove if she were able to read the charge on her ticket.

Here's another suggestion---- have her pay the fine and admit to breaking a traffic law, the actuality being that that was exactly the circumstance. The police service does not provide a "car clock setting" service--- that duty is up to the car driver.

mikeyb wrote:Can you please let me know the steps I need to take and the forms that I need to get in order to have the charges stayed/dropped successfully.

Visit the courthouse and pick up a "4F, Notice of Constitutional Question" form. This website has a good primer on how to file the paperwork:

It also explains the 11B (right to be tried in a reasonable amount of time) issue, and other Charter rights. You will have to do some paperwork, but if two disclosure attempts were made and no reply was received from the Crown, you should be able to get the stay.

Thanks R.I

Do I need to pick up/drop off the paperwork from the court where the trial will be held, or any Provincial courthouse?

Seems like a LOT of work.. Would anyone suggest paying someone to do the running around and making sure all of the paperwork is done and received properly?

mikeyb wrote:Do I need to pick up/drop off the paperwork from the court where the trial will be held, or any Provincial courthouse?

The 4F (Notice of Constitutional Question) form can be picked up at any courthouse... or you can download an editable form here:

I would suggest that you look at ticketcombat's website for instructions on how to complete it.

You have to make sure to file one of the notices with the JP and the Crown Prosecutor at the courthouse where the trial will be held - plus you must serve notice on the Attorneys-General of Canada and Ontario, etc. It's actually not as hard as it sounds. It just involves a lot of running around the city. That said...

mikeyb wrote:Would anyone suggest paying someone to do the running around and making sure all of the paperwork is done and received properly?

Yes. If you want to make sure that it is done properly, hiring a paralegal would be a good idea.

Hey Everyone,

I just realized an issue with my case.. Due to the stupid "family day" holiday, I miscalculated the 15 days notice for the 11b and I am off by one day. (Trial Date is March 1st) My plan was to have it submitted Monday but now after some calculations, with Family day, it would have been needed to be in today (which is obviously too late)

Am I screwed? What is going to happen? Is there ANY chance to salvage this? Is there any way to re-schedule the trial to give us the extra days?

Thanks for the replies ASAP

I would still apply for it, one day late or not, and see what happens.

racer wrote:I would still apply for it, one day late or not, and see what happens.

Thanks for the help. Is it possible for her to claim that there is a conflict in the date or time and needs to move the trial to later. And that would give her more time to file the papers?

Any help is appreciated..

If you are moving the trial to a later day by yourself, you are basically waving your right to a speedy trial, so that is not a good idea. If the prosecution causes the delay, that does not count against you. I think that a day late with the holiday being the reason for lateness should not disqualify your 11B application.

Hey All,

Thanks to all those for their help thus far. My girlfriend and I went in today and with the help of the Ticket Combat website we served the prosecution and the clerk with the paperwork for an 11B.

Now it is just the waiting game and hope all of the hard work pays off in the end.. Keep up the great work helping people defend themselves against the maze that we call the justice system.

Make sure you come back to post and let us know how it all went down.