Hey All, Driver was pulled over for going 38 over (on a highway). After the officer spoke with the driver; noticed I was sitting in the backseat and asked for my ID. Returned with a 38 over ticket for the driver and a failure to wear a seat belt for me. I have requested disclosure and officer notes indicate that upon approaching/walking up to the vehicle he had a clear unobstructed view of the seatbelt, in a relaxed position. My defense in court is that, with the time of stoppage (5:15am) [sun hadn't risen], the tint of the windows and the proven speed of the vehicle it is unreasonable that the officer could have seen if the seatbelt was off while the vehicle was in motion. Once stopped, I removed my seatbelt to gain access to a backpack holding all ID's- as there is no time indicated of when the officer approached the vehicle this could have been 5 minutes or 30. Is there anything else I should add to this, what to expect with such a defense. Any tips at all. This is my first 'offense' and first time in court so any help is greatly appreciated.
Hey All,
Driver was pulled over for going 38 over (on a highway). After the officer spoke with the driver; noticed I was sitting in the backseat and asked for my ID. Returned with a 38 over ticket for the driver and a failure to wear a seat belt for me.
I have requested disclosure and officer notes indicate that upon approaching/walking up to the vehicle he had a clear unobstructed view of the seatbelt, in a relaxed position.
My defense in court is that, with the time of stoppage (5:15am) [sun hadn't risen], the tint of the windows and the proven speed of the vehicle it is unreasonable that the officer could have seen if the seatbelt was off while the vehicle was in motion. Once stopped, I removed my seatbelt to gain access to a backpack holding all ID's- as there is no time indicated of when the officer approached the vehicle this could have been 5 minutes or 30.
Is there anything else I should add to this, what to expect with such a defense.
Any tips at all. This is my first 'offense' and first time in court so any help is greatly appreciated.
While I think you have some good arguments to raise reasonable doubt, something also sounds unbelievable about your story. Are you saying that you had your seat belt on while the car was in motion, but you took it off between the time the officer got out of their car to approach the one you were in? Logically, if the officer noticed movement in your car as they approached (while you supposedly reached for a backpack), they'd be approaching with their firearm drawn! If the officer's notes don't make reference to that type of scenario, your story doesn't sound all too believable either. Why would a backseat passenger feel a need to obtain ID from a backpack at that immediate moment---when the officer would be requesting it from the driver in a few short seconds. I don't know any officer who would approach a vehicle in the dark with passengers in the back seat looking for things without immediately being concerned for their safety and taking necessary security measures! If anything, your action shows a complete lack of respect for the safety of everyone involved! Chances are the officer's notes will say that they never lost sight of the vehicle and there won't be any mention of this type of scenario! You'll therefore be cross-examined on how the officer's headlights were likely shining right inside the vehicle and he would have seen any movement. More importantly, if you raise the story you are claiming, then the whole firearm drawn scenario will undoubtedly be raised by a savvy prosecutor to discredit you. Regardless, you should still be able to raise doubt on the notion that the officer couldn't possibly have a clear view at that time, light, distance and speed. More than likely, they only saw you without a seat belt while the car was no longer in motion. However, given that the minimum fine is $200 and the max is $1000----its quite a gamble to take on these type of charges.
While I think you have some good arguments to raise reasonable doubt, something also sounds unbelievable about your story. Are you saying that you had your seat belt on while the car was in motion, but you took it off between the time the officer got out of their car to approach the one you were in? Logically, if the officer noticed movement in your car as they approached (while you supposedly reached for a backpack), they'd be approaching with their firearm drawn! If the officer's notes don't make reference to that type of scenario, your story doesn't sound all too believable either. Why would a backseat passenger feel a need to obtain ID from a backpack at that immediate moment---when the officer would be requesting it from the driver in a few short seconds. I don't know any officer who would approach a vehicle in the dark with passengers in the back seat looking for things without immediately being concerned for their safety and taking necessary security measures! If anything, your action shows a complete lack of respect for the safety of everyone involved!
Chances are the officer's notes will say that they never lost sight of the vehicle and there won't be any mention of this type of scenario! You'll therefore be cross-examined on how the officer's headlights were likely shining right inside the vehicle and he would have seen any movement. More importantly, if you raise the story you are claiming, then the whole firearm drawn scenario will undoubtedly be raised by a savvy prosecutor to discredit you.
Regardless, you should still be able to raise doubt on the notion that the officer couldn't possibly have a clear view at that time, light, distance and speed. More than likely, they only saw you without a seat belt while the car was no longer in motion. However, given that the minimum fine is $200 and the max is $1000----its quite a gamble to take on these type of charges.
In reality the belt was never on. However, the argument is that yes I reached into a bag once the vehicle was stopped. The officer didn't even notice anyone in the back seats until he had stuck his head through the open passenger side window (opened upon officer approaching). All ID's were in the bag as we were returning from a concert so I was getting it for the driver as well. My action and intent was to make the officers stop go by faster by having all ID's of all individuals in the vehicle at the ready- not everyones a criminal threatening officer safety- but I digress. As the driver also requested disclosure there is no mention of the officer having eyes on the vehicle at all times. He wrongly identified how many parties were in the vehicle. His credibility is, let's say shabby at best. In terms of a savvy prosecutor, I doubt it for traffic court.
In reality the belt was never on. However, the argument is that yes I reached into a bag once the vehicle was stopped. The officer didn't even notice anyone in the back seats until he had stuck his head through the open passenger side window (opened upon officer approaching). All ID's were in the bag as we were returning from a concert so I was getting it for the driver as well.
My action and intent was to make the officers stop go by faster by having all ID's of all individuals in the vehicle at the ready- not everyones a criminal threatening officer safety- but I digress.
As the driver also requested disclosure there is no mention of the officer having eyes on the vehicle at all times. He wrongly identified how many parties were in the vehicle. His credibility is, let's say shabby at best.
In terms of a savvy prosecutor, I doubt it for traffic court.
It's one thing to try to raise reasonable doubt through a good cross-examination of the officers testimony, but quite another to take the stand with the intention of telling a bold-faced lie. If you can't tell the truth in your testimony then don't testify, I would try and find another way.
It's one thing to try to raise reasonable doubt through a good cross-examination of the officers testimony, but quite another to take the stand with the intention of telling a bold-faced lie. If you can't tell the truth in your testimony then don't testify, I would try and find another way.
Don't lie in Court. Regardless of the morality and legal issues, it just simply tends to backfire. It takes only the slightest mistake to get caught up and then your whole testimony gets discredited. You've already got a good argument to raise reasonable doubt, why risk it? In fact, I'd be cautious about taking the stand in your defence. You can simply cross examine the officer and suggest to him it was possible you removed your belt prior to him approaching the vehicle. While not all prosecutors are the same, don't make the mistake of underestimating them. Many prosecutors having been doing their job for a long time, are very articulate and know the law well. They arguably spend more time in Court and make more arguments to the Court then their criminal counterparts.
snapple612 wrote:
My defense in court is that, with the time of stoppage (5:15am) [sun hadn't risen], the tint of the windows and the proven speed of the vehicle it is unreasonable that the officer could have seen if the seatbelt was off while the vehicle was in motion. Once stopped, I removed my seatbelt to gain access to a backpack holding all ID's- as there is no time indicated of when the officer approached the vehicle this could have been 5 minutes or 30.
Don't lie in Court. Regardless of the morality and legal issues, it just simply tends to backfire. It takes only the slightest mistake to get caught up and then your whole testimony gets discredited. You've already got a good argument to raise reasonable doubt, why risk it? In fact, I'd be cautious about taking the stand in your defence. You can simply cross examine the officer and suggest to him it was possible you removed your belt prior to him approaching the vehicle.
snapple612 wrote:
In terms of a savvy prosecutor, I doubt it for traffic court.
While not all prosecutors are the same, don't make the mistake of underestimating them. Many prosecutors having been doing their job for a long time, are very articulate and know the law well. They arguably spend more time in Court and make more arguments to the Court then their criminal counterparts.
Am really confused about this one, this morning i got a reduced speeding ticket (80km speed in 60 zone), and in the ticket the cop wrote 10km over the speeding limit.. and it has the 'R' code in it.. and the cop said i need to pay this and it doesn't have any points on it..
im fine with paying the ticket which is only 40 dollars but my biggest concern, will it show in my record ? or only tickets…
I got a ticket for driving with handheld device in Oct 2015 and I had requested for a trial. Yesterday I received the notice of trial (notice is dated 26-Jan-2017, court of trial is Newmarket, ON) and trial date is Mar 8, 2017. Today, I have sent in a registered request for disclosure (i.e on 29-Jan-2017).
Need some help here for the 1st time speeding ticket?
Sunday morning 12:10am when I was going home from work I was doing bit speeding on Gardiner. I was going with about 130km/h. I know its fast. I always take the same way and I know where the cops hide. They always hide entrance of the highways. If I will do speeding I always look my back and did look this time too. I took gardiner…
I just have a question in regards to the summons Under Part 1 I received for an rear end accident:
I was driving on the 2 lane road, and the car in front of me suddenly stopped, I had seen the car, and so I started to brake, however I heard noise from the back and looked int o the rear view mirror and saw a huge "truck" so I decided to go right, took the feet out of brakes but couldnt…
I have searched and I know the general rule is no, barring criminal charges or tresspassing. So let me use 2 specific issues I have.
1) I have some business in some area malls after hours. Once I have pulled into the mall lot on the way to the closest door I rarely stop at stop signs unless there is a car or person nearby. (i do not carelessly speed, i do show caution, just do not fully stop) Can…
In June at 401 London and Wellington I got hit twice, speeding which I didn't realize I was doing and cell phone. The Officer made me open my purse and show him my phone. I was going to meet a Rep of my Company in Kitchener, he called I answered. WRONG! The Officer wasn't even nice. My record was clean and he slapped me twice. I sat in the car and sobbed for 20 minutes as I was scared out of…
I wanted to "reply" elsewhere...but the more appropriate areas were "locked" to replies....so, here are a couple of questions...from a newbie to this site:
1. Who ARE you? (I'm a little edgy about conversing on a forum whose ownership is not stated anywhere on an "About" page") No offense intended whatsoever. Just like to know who I'm talking with/in front of.......your honor!
You are coming off of a highway exit and there are 3 lanes: right hand lane for right hand turn; middle lane for left AND right turn (but no straight thru since it is only a three-way intersection); and left lane for left hand turn. You are first in the middle lane, signalling to make a right.
CAN YOU make a right hand turn from the middle lane on a red if the traffic is clear?
Hey everyone first off I'd like to say great website, I have been reading and it is very useful
I'm posting today as I'd like to get some feedback on my situation and have a couple of questions. Please excuse the vagueness in some areas - I don't want my case to be identifiable given the small town.
So I was driving up north and was pulled over by an OPP SUV for doing 31 over. Cop drove past me,…
Hello! I'm under 16 currently and really want to drive. I know that section 37(1) says you have to be 16, but I've read that the HTA does not apply when you are in private property, so does that mean I can drive in a parking lot if I wanted to?
I was heading northbound on my bike downtown on friday. After the east/westbound lights went red and after a long pause I decided to get a head start and proceed before the light changed to green. About a block north of me an officer stepped out of an unmarked cruiser and pulled me over and gave me a $180 ticket. Now I see on this site that I should have been given points for it..but…
Got a ticket Saturday for insecure load. The officer was a real jerk and unfair. I had nothing hanging out the sides and the load wasn't that high. Just taking some junk to the dump. I was doing 40 on Ashley St in Foxboro, 4 ways on taking my time and nothing was going to fall out. I'm thinking about fighting it. Anyone experienced this before?
So I got convicted of a dui.. I have been riding my bike in the snow and taking the bus. I am a driving enthusiast and I will be going to the race track all summer but I NEED to drive something right now!
I have done lots of research and even an electric assisted bike that a 16 year old can drive legally on the road is not an option to someone with a dui suspension.
Hey this is my first ticket so as much information that people can provide will be appreciated. I was making the drive home going around 90kph(in a 80) behind what I knew was an undercover police car. The cop abruptly pulled to the side and pulled back in behind me to pull me over. Now I reduced my speed to below 80 when the cop pulled to the side but he claimed he had me clocked at 109kph and…
So I was heading home to today and I was in the left lane of the off ramp, some lady cut across her lane of traffic and across the off ramp median and hit the back side of my car! After a few meters of bumping (I was dazed and confused) I stopped the car.
I call 911 and was told to move the car to the shoulder.
Cop comes, interviews both of us, and lets the lady go! The cop proceeds to give…
An undercover cop, well not sure if he was even a cop to be honest, maybe a constable pulled me over after I passed him shortly after a construction zone. He asked me if I was in a rush and said that he was going 105 and I was going 120. It seems mostly from our conversation that he was pissed off that I passed him, because he never told me that I was speeding. None the less the ticket says…
I got this ticket last year in toronto and received court date recently.
Basically I parket on a street where there are marked spots for car parking but they were all faded with only the white edges showing. I assumed I was in the correct spot when I got out. I never noticed the fire hydrant in the bushes.
When I returned I saw the ticket and then noticed the fire hydrant and when I to the…
I would like to know if anybody could tell me what "V" stands for on the Code section of the Form 4. I think that it will be useful to understand what information is on this form in order to make a decision on what option we should chose.
I recently received a ticket for red light fail to stop under section 144 (18) of the Highway Traffic Act at the intersection of Dupont St. and Dufferin St. in Toronto with a set fine of $150 and total payable of $190. I think I entered the intersection on a yellow, however that is not the way the officer saw it. During the traffic stop the officer was polite bordering on friendly…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…