Charged with speeding 15 kl over in process of passing

I was ticketed 15 kl over the speed limit of 90 while legally passing. Iwas traveling from Sault Ste Marie to Wawa, a distace of app 240 kl. Pass the half point I came behind a car who on several time slowed down to around 80 kl. The stretch of highway that I was on has a lot of turns with short passing straight. I have traveled this highway for app 20 years, often working in between these town. I knew that Old Women River was comming up. It has a app 2 to 3 kl down hill straight stretch of highway with clear visibility. It also has a passing lane comming up the hill going south. Because I was towing a dual axles trailer empty and the passing stretch were too short I stayed behind the slow car for app 10 kl until I reach Old Women. I saw a car comming up the hill using the lane closess to the ditch. I signal and started passing, the car ahead pick up speed so I increase speed to app 110 to 115 while passing. The car comming toward me up the hill was an Ontario Provincial Police. I pass the car, returned in my lane and the speed limit. In my rear view I saw the cruiser turning around and proceeded to stop me. What did I do wrong. I pass safely. I was not speeding prior and after passing. The officer maintain that even while passing if going over the speed limit I can and was charged with speeding. This is frustraring, I do not think that I did any thing wrong. The officer ask me twice how fast I was going.I tried to tell him that I only increase speed to pass that I fallowed the speed limit all the way from the Sault.When he told me that I was pretty confrontational I gave up. What do I do. Go to court talk to the judge or just pay the fine. 118.oo

You didn't do anything wrong but you still broke the (stupid) law and got nailed for it. I'd take it to court and try to get off on a technicality, such as 11b or lack of disclosure. Check out this site http://www.ticketcombat.com/ as it will give you a great primer on the process and your options. Good luck!

hoistman wrote:

I was ticketed 15 kl over the speed limit of 90 while legally passing.

You may have been in a legal area to pass, however there are no excemptions to the speed limit to pass another vehicle.

You got a break too that was the lucky part, from 25km over (3 points) down to 15 over (0 points).

Just to clarify something... Whether it's 15 over, 25 over, 45 over or 5 over, it will be treated the same by the insurance industry. Unless you're a professional driver and need 0 points on your abstract to keep your job, your ticket isn't any less worth fighting. My insurance rates went up 20% because of a 10 over ticket and a 5 over ticket in a 3 year period.

FiReSTaRT wrote:

My insurance rates went up 20% because of a 10 over ticket and a 5 over ticket in a 3 year period.

You MONSTER!

Yeah, the street racing kind.. Just waiting for Fantino to take back his sock-puppet from CP24, mount it on his left forearm and impound my car/bike/lawnmower

Need more rolaid! In pursuing research in my ticket. I contacted the Sault detachment of the OPP and spoke to the duty officer. I explain to him the event that led to my ticket. The issuing of a ticket is at the discretion of the officer. In this situation the duty officer would not have issued the ticket, 1. the reason for passing was valid, 2. passing was done in a desingnated area and safelly, 3. the increase of speed is often necessary to pass in a timelly manner, 4. in these instence the increase of 10 to 15kl is not deam to be exceffive pertaining that the driver resume speed limit once passing is done. Every situition has it own prablem and has to be asses accordingly. By the time I got stop I had just driven over 200kl at the speed and had no reason to do otherwise. It is very frustratinig getting a tcket even knowing you deserve it and the consecquance that it has on your insurance,but gut wrenching when you feel or know you did nothing wrong. Fallowing the direction of the duty officer, I will tick of the not guilty at the beck of the ticket and explain my situation to a judge in court. Will keep you posted. Hoistman

This happens quite a bit.. People perfectly content to do 80 in a 90 zone accelerate to 110 as soon as you try or to pass'em. Seen too many of those goin' up/down 69.

Explaining the situation to the JP probably won't do you much good. Speeding is an absolute liability offence, which means that if you did it, you're guilty. You admit to it, you're found guilty in court. What you were doing while speeding doesn't really matter in 99.9% of the cases and your case is one of those that will get you convicted.

You need a better defence plan than "Your Worship, I was passing someone and you can't really pass without going over the speed limit." In some cases laws and common sense do not mix.

hoistman wrote:

I contacted the Sault detachment of the OPP and spoke to the duty officer.

What is a duty officer at detachment?

This just reminded me of a video from youtube

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QyB3gSGiEM[/youtube]

FiReSTaRT wrote:

This happens quite a bit.. People perfectly content to do 80 in a 90 zone accelerate to 110 as soon as you try or to pass'em. Seen too many of those goin' up/down 69.

Yeah, and it drives me FRIGGIN' BANANAS!

Don't get me started...

hwybear wrote:

This just reminded me of a video from youtube

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QyB3gSGiEM[/youtube]

I've got to comment on that video. If I understand it correctly this self-righteous "driver" decides it would be a good idea to make a documentary WHILE DRIVING??? At one point he quickly moves his camera from the side mirror to check the road ahead and then back to the side mirror which suggests he's actually steering through the camera display. Surely such a law abiding driver like him would keep both hands on the wheel. So what's he using to hold the camera, his teeth? By the way, isn't there's a law against using display monitors in the front seat, you know, like a video camera!

And of course, the classic big finish ending where there's a cruiser on the side of the road (lights on) and he doesn't slow down or move over. Yep, he drives the speed limit all right and no doubt thinks he's the safest driver on the road. Beware the self-righteous, they're the most guilty of all.

ticketcombat wrote:

Yep, he drives the speed limit all right and no doubt thinks he's the safest driver on the road. Beware the self-righteous, they're the most guilty of all.

No kidding.

I'd add, too, that when a large transport truck moves to pass on an undivided two-lane highway, the smart thing to do would be to just back off the gas a little bit so they can pass quicker, but not this guy! Just maintains his speed and films while driving a 150 000 pound vehicle (or whatever) about six feet from oncoming traffic with a closing speed of 180 km/h.

One more thing, not justifying the nutcase who passed on a double-line going around a blind curve, but if someone did that to me, I'd brake so that the idiot can complete the pass ASAP and stop endangering oncoming drivers on the highway. Seriously, if someone's doing something insane like that, anyone with common sense would put down the camera and reduce speed. Where's an oncoming driver going to go if they suddenly appear coming around the bend? Oh wait... I forgot... someone with common sense wouldn't be filming while driving. Disregard...

Speaking of that video about what 6 or 7 trucks race around him?

Maybee he is the problem and not everyone else, i wonder if he ever thinks of that while he sits there filming his video and that everyone else has to race around them and his ignorance.

I wonder if those trucks that camp in the middle lane at 105 ever realize this as everyone has to race around them on the side and then end up cutting them off the second they can pass the truck?

Maybee they could just move over in the right lane and allow the traffic to low normally instead of forcing everyone into the left lane to close to each other.

It happens all the time, some will slow down as they all get in their lane to pass the slow truck in the middle, others will get mad and tailgate them, and others will not have the patience and will go across all lanes, pass on the right, and go back to the left.

Unless they're is a Crown Vic Marked OPP on it.

Well then they're all angels. The truck would move over. And people would pass properly, not drive to close, and they would also only go 14 km/hr over the speed limit.

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem? Oh noes.

In this case, that trucker couldn't move any more to the right. Otherwise, you're right. I hate those who can't seem to keep right; my dad is one of them and I just can't change his mind. He also thinks it's safer to brake during a turn based on his own understanding of physics...I gave up on that when he told me to go draw a free-body diagram.

ONTARIO REGULATION 455/07

Definition, "stunt"

3. For the purposes of section 172 of the Act, "stunt" includes any activity where one or more persons engage in any of the following driving behaviours:

1. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to lift some or all of its tires from the surface of the highway, including driving a motorcycle with only one wheel in contact with the ground, but not including the use of lift axles on commercial motor vehicles.

2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.

3. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to spin it or cause it to circle, without maintaining control over it.

4. Driving two or more motor vehicles side by side or in proximity to each other, where one of the motor vehicles occupies a lane of traffic or other portion of the highway intended for use by oncoming traffic for a period of time that is longer than is reasonably required to pass another motor vehicle.

5. Driving a motor vehicle with a person in the trunk of the motor vehicle.

6. Driving a motor vehicle while the driver is not sitting in the drivers seat.

7. Driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is 50 kilometres per hour or more over the speed limit.

8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the drivers sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so,

iii. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to drive, without justification, as close as possible to another vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object on or near the highway, or

iv. making a left turn where,

(A) the driver is stopped at an intersection controlled by a traffic control signal system in response to a circular red indication;

(B) at least one vehicle facing the opposite direction is similarly stopped in response to a circular red indication; and

(C) the driver executes the left turn immediately before or after the system shows only a circular green indication in both directions and in a manner that indicates an intention to complete or attempt to complete the left turn before the vehicle facing the opposite direction is able to proceed straight through the intersection in response to the circular green indication facing that vehicle. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 3.

So, if the driver whom you were passing sped up to avoid being overtaken, then s/he should have been charged with 172 (Stunt Driving) instead!

Also, he was slowing down thus making everyone behind him slow down, including hoistman, when hoistman would not have ordinarily slowed down.

Hope this is useful!

Thanks Racer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I made a post on this topic and didnt get an answer.

So what gives guys.

If i go 151 i get impounded, screwed over royally, my rights to a fair trial taken away by having my car taken on the spot.

I could do this at 3:30 am on the 401 in no where land and not endanger anyone and going with the flow of traffic.

But some jackass in a trailer parked at 105 in the left lane purposely doing this will not get 172.?

Its a 2 way street and speeding is not the only "dangerous thing"

I see this all the time and its way more dangerous then going 150. Youll have some guy slowing everyone down. Hell stay at 105 and so wil the truck behind him and people will get infuriated!

How come these people never get 172.

And don't tell me its hard to enforce this at all.

I already know that officer will hide under bridges, or sit on the shoulder with lidar and they will check your speed.

So if your an officer and you have a constant space of cars passing, and then lets say no cars pass for 1 minute, then you look up the road and you see there is a major traffic jam behind some guy in the left lane who is doing this on purpose as a STUNT!

So why not go give him 172 for purposely blocking other vehicles and trying to slow them down?

I guess most of our officers today and the rest of the public along with Julian Fantino would say nothing but would add the fact that all the cars behind this inconsiderate person who is dangerously doing this mustall be really aggressive tailgates right?

Nothing angers me more!!!. These people really od make the road hell. At least on the autobahn they will give major tickets for doing this.

It is not funny when it happens.

There has been a few times going up to Barrie on the 400 where the flow of traffic in the left lanes can easily get up to 130-140 and then some guy in a Prius will sit there at 105 going the same speed as the truck behind them.

This guy is causing road rage, messing with the flow of traffic, refusing to let others pass, making the road very dangerous, infuriating every driver behind him, and causing the drivers behind him to swerve around lanes and cut others off to get around this inconvenience.

And this it not a stunt or dangerous !!!! ya right.

I am not referring to this truck but come on maybee some paint and a new sign?

I mean i always see those big blue signs right "50 over and well tow your ass, impound your car and fine you a ton of money."

How about some signs reminding us to "Move right except to pass."

"Driving in left lane prohibited."

""8. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,

i. driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to prevent another vehicle from passing,

ii. stopping or slowing down a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates the drivers sole intention in stopping or slowing down is to interfere with the movement of another vehicle by cutting off its passage on the highway or to cause another vehicle to stop or slow down in circumstances where the other vehicle would not ordinarily do so, ""

Well i know the 50 over law works cause when the flow of traffic is at 140-145 they all know it to.

Maybee those people who deliberate do this behavior should also be notified that they can be towed.

We never see this on the news.

"Man clogging passing lane on hwy 407 causes 1 km traffic jam and has car towed under under 172 as stunt driving."

It's not fair, you speed and the whole world thinks your some dangerous reckless nut and you lose out big time.

But you can get away with behavior like this on our roads?

I wonder how many cops would actually apply 172 to someone doing this. We know most will for going 50 over.

Hwybear you say though there is no excuse to go 50 over, ill agree but there is also no excuse to be purposely trying to slow down others or block traffic from passing.

I think this happens alot more then people who drive 50 over the limit aswell.

Ya I hear you tdrive2. Just looking at the OREG455/07 makes you ask a lot of question, one for each the definitions.

Why is "Marked departure from the normal flow of traffic" means 50 over the speed limit? Someone doing 151 when everyone else is doing 149 is by no means a "marked departure"? Tapp proved that in court apparently.

Why is that when someone is overtaken, they step up on gas to avoid it? If they weren't too slow before that they wouldn't be overtaken, and that is normal behaviour?

Why is it the 50 over that gets all the attention and enforcement, and the rest of a semi-decent act with some good points in it (I am talking everything else but the roadside trial) gets ignored?

The list goes on and off-topic.

Squishy wrote:

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem?

WAIT! Let me clarify...

If there's a long line of cars all packed up behind you...

Bookm wrote:

Squishy wrote:

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem?

WAIT! Let me clarify...

If there's a long line of cars all packed up behind you...

Then...there's a lot of cars on the road?

Squishy wrote:

Bookm wrote:

Squishy wrote:

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem?

WAIT! Let me clarify...

If there's a long line of cars all packed up behind you...

Then...there's a lot of cars on the road?

Unless there's nobody in front of him.......

Squishy wrote:

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem? Oh noes.

In Which Lane?

The right or the left.

In the left lane, yes you would indeed be the problem.

On a second though Racer i thought of something.

Maybee they would only use 172 on a person blocking a lane if it was a tim hortons truck plugging the middle lane and stopping others from using it. Can you imagine them impounding a whole tim hortons truck + trailer. boy ohbboyyyy ( are the contents of the trailer evidence to )

tdrive2 wrote:

I made a post on this topic and didnt get an answer.

.

tdrive2 wrote:

Hwybear you say though there is no excuse to go 50 over, ill agree but there is also no excuse to be purposely trying to slow down others or block traffic from passing.

I think this happens alot more then people who drive 50 over the limit aswell.

Nor should one driving at 105km/hr passing another be forced by some knuckle head to exceed the speed they are not comfortable with to pass someone quicker, so knuckle head can blast down the highway. b/c that driver has a poor sense of time management.

If everyone drove at 100km/hr or even 120km (hey I'll give you that for arguement sake right now) Or better yet the gov't speed govenor at 105km/hr and not 1km faster or slower....no one would catch anyone, no one would pass, and traffic would just flow consistently.

Back to one of my points....give me a "traffic car" to see this stuff, not a B&W billboard, not a crown vic. I would more than gladly knock off the drivers you speak of, but I need the tools to do the job.

tdrive2 wrote:

Squishy wrote:

So when I drive 80 or 90 km/h on a two-lane highway, I'm being a problem? Oh noes.

In Which Lane?

The right or the left.

In the left lane, yes you would indeed be the problem.

There is no "left lane." A two-lane highway has one lane in each direction.

Mmm... wine & cheese...

hwybear wrote:

Back to one of my points....give me a "traffic car" to see this stuff, not a B&W billboard, not a crown vic. I would more than gladly knock off the drivers you speak of, but I need the tools to do the job.

I think it would be worthwhile seeing if employing that sort of "traffic car" reduces collisions, injuries and fatalities over the course of a summer, traditionally the highest time of year for road deaths. Maybe it could be started as a pilot project.

hwybear wrote:

If everyone drove at 100km/hr or even 120km (hey I'll give you that for arguement sake right now) Or better yet the gov't speed govenor at 105km/hr and not 1km faster or slower....no one would catch anyone, no one would pass, and traffic would just flow consistently.

We didn't successfully evolve in to our current status as the most advanced life form ever to walk the earth because we are virtual clones of one another and are comfortable being controlled and shepherded by some higher authority. It's because of our vast difference of opinions and individuality. It's this desire to explore, create, and experiment in different ways that makes a free society FREE.

You will never see a government get elected that would restrict a drivers ability to choose his own speed within a tolerance of 1 or 2 kph. To suggest that this is a reasonable proposal makes me question your grasp of society in general. Why not just say, "Just say NO", or, "Can't we all just get along". Gee, why didn't those simplistic schemes resolve their associated causes.

It has to be understood that there will always be two general speeds on the road, "faster" and "slower". Traffic engineers have always known this which is why we have multiple lanes in each direction, lane markings to assist with passing, and a plethora of statutes that relate to passing and lane etiquette. Human behavior demands it! It will never change.

Bear, your job is plenty safe!

Bookm wrote:

hwybear wrote:

If everyone drove at 100km/hr or even 120km (hey I'll give you that for arguement sake right now) Or better yet the gov't speed govenor at 105km/hr and not 1km faster or slower....no one would catch anyone, no one would pass, and traffic would just flow consistently.

We didn't successfully evolve in to our current status as the most advanced life form ever to walk the earth because we are virtual clones of one another and are comfortable being controlled and shepherded by some higher authority. It's because of our vast difference of opinions and individuality. It's this desire to explore, create, and experiment in different ways that makes a free society FREE.

You will never see a government get elected that would restrict a drivers ability to choose his own speed within a tolerance of 1 or 2 kph. To suggest that this is a reasonable proposal makes me question your grasp of society in general. Why not just say, "Just say NO", or, "Can't we all just get along". Gee, why didn't those simplistic schemes resolve their associated causes.

It has to be understood that there will always be two general speeds on the road, "faster" and "slower". Traffic engineers have always known this which is why we have multiple lanes in each direction, lane markings to assist with passing, and a plethora of statutes that relate to passing and lane etiquette. Human behavior demands it! It will never change.

Bear, your job is plenty safe!

Give me a 105 governer and i'll put on bigger wheels.....'nough said.

Reflections wrote:

Give me a 105 governer and i'll put on bigger wheels.....'nough said.

I see what you mean

Well i guess its just Ontario plenty of other places drive with higher limits and live to tell the tale.

What does lane discipline have to do with being in a hurry?

Don't we build super highways to get places fast?

Sure bear ill manage my time. Next time i wanna to to Waterloo ill plan our like 6 hours and take a whole bunch of 50 km/hr roads....

In fact "super highways" or controlled access highways work just fine when people use lanes properly.

Oh i forget doesn't the autobahn already do this?

Ill put a speed limiter on my car when the OPP put a speed limit on their car which turns off when they turn their lights on.

I think ill keep fast limits and a higher risk of death or some risk in my life them some sort of Nazi Germany, Communist Russia, Or Obama based Socliast society.

Whos gonna pay for the limiters?

Besides when are we going to install those scales in MacDonalds that dont let obese people order food?

We could make those to. They could have a scale where you order them at Tim Hortons to. And cops that are unhealthy and would cost our health care system lives , it could measure your height and weight and if its "obese no doughnuts for you".

When are we gonna ban all Cigarettes and fast food to cause they "kill people."

Hell there is probably 1000 Times more people that die from smoking and eating then do racing or "driving to fast down the 401 at 150."

We could also install big glass bubbles around all our cars to like on the Jetsons.

Or even better if we don't want to die we could simply make all car production illegal and have the government build some sort of super green fuel efficient vehicles with speed limiters and devices to prevent tailgating like big magnets on the back of our cars.

They could also install big walls between the driver and passengers to prevent the driver from being distracted.

Maybe its the whole rest of the modern world that has it wrong or just Ontario?

Maybe i just described the Ultimae McGunity & Fantino State.

Oh guys did i mention we could install all cars with tin foil to stop those waves from the cops radar/lidar guns from giving us cancer haha.

I cant wait to see speed limiters at work!!!!

I know they are gonna work just great when your on a highway and the flow of traffic is at 130 and a bunch of slow trucks are parked in the middle of the road.

I am sure these people will all just happily slow down behind the trucks and not get to close, or try to pass on the right, cut someone off, tailgate each other in the left lane, you know thats how everyone drives in the GTA anyays.