Couple of questions regarding a 50 in a school zone 40

Hello

Thank you for your help in this matter.

I used to have an excellent driving record... however I now have two tickets on my record, and last week was pulled over so I am very concerned about my insurance, as I will have three.

I was going either 64 or 67 in a 60, but the 60 suddenly became a 40 school zone. There was no warning that the 40 was ahead, and I noticed the sign I did go past is in some trees, which I might be able to argue makes it difficult to see, although it also had a flashing yellow light on the top of the sign. It was my first time on this street.

Anyway, the officer was very nice, and reduced it to 50 in a 40, instead of the 64 (or 67 - can't remember)...

Questions:

(1) should I fight this, to save the insurance? I can hope the officer doesn't show up (change the date, etc), as for disclosure... Or maybe take pictures and show that the sign is not very clear (it's around a bit of a bend, and in the trees).

(2) If I go to court, and lose, can the judge (or J.P) find me guilty for the original offence of 60 something in a 40?

I wasn't going much over the speed limit before that sign (which was a 60), and then suddenly I was in a 40 school zone....

Thanks for you help.

Mark

MarkSay wrote:

(1) should I fight this, to save the insurance? I can hope the officer doesn't show up (change the date, etc), as for disclosure... Or maybe take pictures and show that the sign is not very clear (it's around a bit of a bend, and in the trees).

I wouldn't count on an officer to not show up. It doesn't happen as much as your friends or whomever says it does. If it happens, so be it, but it should not be your only strategy. Some prosecutors will not let you know whether the officer is in the building till you make a plea.

MarkSay wrote:

(2) If I go to court, and lose, can the judge (or J.P) find me guilty for the original offence of 60 something in a 40?

Yes

MarkSay wrote:

however I now have two tickets on my record, and last week was pulled over so I am very concerned about my insurance, as I will have three.

When were you convicted for the previous two tickets?

MarkSay wrote:

I was going either 64 or 67 in a 60, but the 60 suddenly became a 40 school zone. There was no warning that the 40 was ahead, and I noticed the sign I did go past is in some trees, which I might be able to argue makes it difficult to see, although it also had a flashing yellow light on the top of the sign. It was my first time on this street.

Anyway, the officer was very nice, and reduced it to 50 in a 40, instead of the 64 (or 67 - can't remember)...

I wasn't going much over the speed limit before that sign (which was a 60), and then suddenly I was in a 40 school zone....

Lets entertain the idea that some trees obstructed an amber flashing 40kph sign, and that you believed you were in a 60 zone. By your own admission you're still going 4 to 7kph over what you believed was the 60kph limit. S128 of the HTA simply states that you can not travel even 1kph over the limit. In Ontario built-up areas that do not have posted limits default to 50kph, so are you now +14 to 17kph over the limit?

If the 40kph sign was indeed obstructed, you'll have to at the very least be travelling at a speed <60kph and preferably <50kph.

From an Insurance POV, they don't care what your speed is... whether it's +1kph or +49kph, they just look at the # of convictions.

Thank you for your help

When were you convicted for the previous two tickets?

Most recent was in February... Before that was, I think in March 2012

How likely is the judge to raise it to the original offence? Does it happen often?

iFly55 wrote:

Lets entertain the idea that some trees obstructed an amber flashing 40kph sign, and that you believed you were in a 60 zone. By your own admission you're still going 4 to 7kph over what you believed was the 60kph limit. S128 of the HTA simply states that you can not travel even 1kph over the limit. In Ontario built-up areas that do not have posted limits default to 50kph, so are you now +14 to 17kph over the limit?

If the 40kph sign was indeed obstructed, you'll have to at the very least be travelling at a speed <60kph and preferably <50kph.

The 60 sign was pretty clear before the 40 came up. Does that just mean I shouldn't admit to going over the 60?