From the HTA, I always thought 'highway' could be interpreted to include mall parking lots, because they are "intended for or used by the general public". But after spending the last few days reading the majority of posts on this site, you all seem to agree that the HTA definition of 'highway' only applies to public areas between private property lines. If, for example, someone was caught doing a burnout on the main roadway inside a mall parking lot, could a charge be laid under the HTA? It would be private property, but it is intended for use by the general public.
From the HTA, I always thought 'highway' could be interpreted to include mall parking lots, because they are "intended for or used by the general public". But after spending the last few days reading the majority of posts on this site, you all seem to agree that the HTA definition of 'highway' only applies to public areas between private property lines.
If, for example, someone was caught doing a burnout on the main roadway inside a mall parking lot, could a charge be laid under the HTA? It would be private property, but it is intended for use by the general public.
The OHTA does not apply to private property, such as mall parking lots. However, the criminal code does apply; dangerous driving and so do noise by-laws.
The OHTA does not apply to private property, such as mall parking lots. However, the criminal code does apply; dangerous driving and so do noise by-laws.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
The definition has come to mean is the area property line to property line, as far as defining a highway. Most of the HTA offences, such as section 128 (speeding), section 130 (careless driving) and section 172 :roll: specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere. As Reflections said, they could get you for some other offence in the parking lot, just not HTA... unless you hit something.
The definition has come to mean is the area property line to property line, as far as defining a highway. Most of the HTA offences, such as section 128 (speeding), section 130 (careless driving) and section 172 specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere.
As Reflections said, they could get you for some other offence in the parking lot, just not HTA... unless you hit something.
Last edited by Radar Identified on Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So it's more or less based on case law? Which is perfectly fine; I just read the definition of 'highway' in the HTA to be worded to include private property meant for public access. So it would include mall parking lots, apartment visitor lots, TTC passenger drop-offs, etc., but exclude your house driveway and other controlled access areas like TTC parking lots. To me, the word 'public' there means 'public access' instead of 'public property'. I guess the courts feel differently. 8)
So it's more or less based on case law? Which is perfectly fine; I just read the definition of 'highway' in the HTA to be worded to include private property meant for public access. So it would include mall parking lots, apartment visitor lots, TTC passenger drop-offs, etc., but exclude your house driveway and other controlled access areas like TTC parking lots.
"highway" includes a common and public highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
To me, the word 'public' there means 'public access' instead of 'public property'. I guess the courts feel differently.
It is used by the general public for the passage of vehicles. Not the spaces themselves, but the roadways that are adjacent to the spaces. How often do people exceed 50 km/h in front of Wal-Mart? Moot point anyways, as the courts don't recognise my interpretation according to case law. I was just interested on where the HTA was enforceable.
It is used by the general public for the passage of vehicles. Not the spaces themselves, but the roadways that are adjacent to the spaces. How often do people exceed 50 km/h in front of Wal-Mart?
Moot point anyways, as the courts don't recognise my interpretation according to case law. I was just interested on where the HTA was enforceable.
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that: "highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique") Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
"highway" includes a common and public, highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that:
"highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that: "highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique") Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?) I pay every time I go to Eaton Centre. :D I think I'm starting to understand. So if someone was to 'stunt' in a Home Depot parking lot, section 172 couldn't be applied? I guess it would end up being a trespassing charge then.
racer wrote:
"highway" includes a common and public, highway, street, avenue, parkway, driveway, square, place, bridge, viaduct or trestle, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Where I bolded, because commas are only used to separate the items on the list, meaning roughly that:
"highway" includes a common and public driveable surface, any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles and includes the area between the lateral property lines thereof; ("voie publique")
Public is the key otherwise. If it's not on public property, then it does not apply, unless it is classified as a toll highway (which can be private property). Mall parking lots are surely not toll highways (would you pay to park at a mall?)
I pay every time I go to Eaton Centre.
I think I'm starting to understand. So if someone was to 'stunt' in a Home Depot parking lot, section 172 couldn't be applied? I guess it would end up being a trespassing charge then.
I heard Julian Fantino is gonna have OPP officers and planes to patrol parking lots for aggressive driving. Rumour is a 7 day license suspension and toe on the spot. Mandatory court date.
I heard Julian Fantino is gonna have OPP officers and planes to patrol parking lots for aggressive driving.
Rumour is a 7 day license suspension and toe on the spot. Mandatory court date.
Highway is anything between fence line to fence line. Under the act it states, "any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles" This refers to those rest stops off the highway, not Walmart parking lots. Passage of vehicles, one way in (off highway) and one way out (onto highway).
Highway is anything between fence line to fence line. Under the act it states, "any part of which is intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles"
This refers to those rest stops off the highway, not Walmart parking lots. Passage of vehicles, one way in (off highway) and one way out (onto highway).
I have just heard this argument from my 2 cousins, which are both taking Criminology in Ottawa and training to be police officers. They told me that the HTA does not apply to private property. Now you may say, yeah no point in it applying to a Wal-Mart, but what about the 407? The 407 is PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! It is owned by a corporation, and therefore they told me for that reason the HTA does not apply on the 407. She also told me she discussed this with police in North York, and they said it was true, that police really can only go on it if there is an accident, but can't stop anybody speeding since the HTA does not apply. Although saying this, I have seen some OPP around Oakville on the 407. Looking like they are looking for speeders. But not like people would be aware of this, they may just pay the ticket. Is this actually true? Or is it just a myth?
I have just heard this argument from my 2 cousins, which are both taking Criminology in Ottawa and training to be police officers.
They told me that the HTA does not apply to private property.
Now you may say, yeah no point in it applying to a Wal-Mart, but what about the 407?
The 407 is PRIVATE PROPERTY!!! It is owned by a corporation, and therefore they told me for that reason the HTA does not apply on the 407. She also told me she discussed this with police in North York, and they said it was true, that police really can only go on it if there is an accident, but can't stop anybody speeding since the HTA does not apply.
Although saying this, I have seen some OPP around Oakville on the 407. Looking like they are looking for speeders. But not like people would be aware of this, they may just pay the ticket.
So heres my case, does it have any validity? Im argueing that the officer did not have a justified view of where and if my car stopped or not, which it did.
This is the officers view of the stop sign i "disobeyed"
Another possible viewpoint, just so i can say that he cant see regardless
As you can see he cannot see the line where i must stop
As close are possible (which he wasnt) to the intersection,…
I need some help to settle a "Right of Way" argument. I know this question has probably been asked a thousand times before, but after doing a search, I was unable to find a posting on the forum, or the specific section in the OHTA relating to it.
Scenario:
Two cars approach an intersection where the east and westbound directions are controlled by stop signs, and the north and southbound…
I was pulled over for doing 123 in an 80 zone on highway 7 near Peterborough. The officer reduced it to 109 in an 80. It was HIGHLY unlikely that I was going 109, let alone 123, so for the merit of it I am taking this to court. Court case mid January.
Please could you help me to decipher the officer's notes. Are there any errors in the notes or on the ticket that you can see?
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
Was pulled over earlier today for going 95km/h in posted 60km/h, 2nd offense (same cop that pulled me over the first time >.<) ticket of $265. going down dougall toward cabana where it goes from the 80 to 60 zone (yes was over slightly coming in and kept speed)
Just wondering what the best way to handle this? (location: windsor ontario)
I am a bartender and last saturday night while I was working someone backed into my car (2000 Acura Integra) in the prking lot. One of the cooks in the kitchen ran to tell me my car alarm is going off. Immediately I ran outside to discover my driver side mirror smashed on the ground and my driver door dented. There was nobody around to claim responsibility. I had already begun to suspect one…
Scenario regarding speeding charge - if a charge is not reduced at all at roadside, i.e. the charge, for example is "speeding 75 km/h in a 60 km/h zone contrary to s. 128," should that not mean the prosecution needs to prove that you are guilty of what you are being charged with, and not, simply, of speeding generally? I understand that if they prove a charge of even 61 km/h in a 60 km/h, they…
In a nutshell, in York Region, ran a stale yellow, cop was on a 407 off ramp and tickets me for red light. 2 week old pink slip, I forgot I put the new behind the expired one so I got a ticket for that as well.
Had the first court date adjourned because I did not receive disclosure. I used the Ticketcombat template and faxed it over, they told me I never left a phone number. No surprise there, I…
Was stopped in an OPP speed trap on eastbound QEW near Hamilton at 1:30 AM last week (Apr 25th). Officer said I was doing 131 km/h based on radar gun but I thought I was around 120 km/h (I let off the gas and looked at my speedo when I saw the 2 cars on the shoulder). It was a dark stretch and it was not busy but there were a few other cars on the highway. I asked to see the reading but they said…
1) Discovery info includes 3 pages of Genesis radar manual. Officer's notes show he used "Atlantic Laser" to measure speed. Didn't show model # (only s/n). The Genesis was used earlier on in the day, but not for my case. Can I grill him on this or is it simply a clerk's error in sending me the wrong manual?
I got a ticket for an expired licence sticker. The next day I went to the Ministry office to renew my sticker. I thought that I HAD to pay any outstanding tickets BEFORE I was eligible to renew my sticker. The lady at the desk informed me that I had an outstanding balance and 407 bill that I had a to pay and I told her that I was aware of that. I thought everything was cleared.
Last week I was driving though downtown and because of the slippery / wet conditions could not stop when the light was turning yellow to red and slid in to the intersection. I was hit by another car (near the headlamp). None of us were injured, there was significat damge to the cars. The air bags did not deploy.
I was given a ticket that reads : Red Light - fail to stop - H.T.A sect 144 (18) Fine…
I was just wondering if there was any text in the HTA that suggests that when driving on a highway with three lanes going in each direction, drivers should generally always be in the rightmost lane unless they are passing.
At first, I thought 154(b) was what I was looking for, but now I'm not so sure?
"Officials in West Vancouver, Canada apparently aren't satisfied with the driver-slowing properties of traditional speed bumps. Yesterday, the town unveiled a new way to entice motorists to ease off the gas pedal in the vicinity of the ÃÂcole Pauline Johnson Elementary School: A 2-D image of a child playing, creating the illusion that…
Does anybody know how you can check the status of your Demerit Points and how many you have collected over the last two years?
I just received a ticket as I was travelling through Barrie and am debating whether or not to fight it. My decision will be based on whether or not an infraction I received a year ago came with Demerit Points.
I have a question I would like to ask concerning turning right on a red light.
I was approaching on the right turn only lane to the traffic light which turned from amber to red. As soon as the red light came on, there were advance green left turn arrow for the intersection I was for the cars that were traveling right to left and left to right of me. Since there was a lot of traffic from where I…
So I got pulled over for speeding and following too close, on HWY 11 north of Barrie. The airplane caught me! I will fight this as I have fought ALL my tickets and won EVERY ONE of them (one per year... man I need to drive slower). So any thoughts out there on how to fight this one? Does the Crown have to bring the 2 officers in the plane, plus the one in the cruises to court? If 1 in 3 doesn't…
I am new to this forum and before making this post I did some digging and was unable to find anything on this method of officer note taking.
A little back ground of my case:
charged with 25km/h over the posted limit.
After numerous disclosure requests, finally received a detailed disclosure including several pages of the lidar manual and typed officer notes describing the events of my…
My wife was just pulled over for running a yellow light and instead was ticketed for an expired drivers licence. The license expired on her birthdate 4 months ago and she didn;t recieve a renewal. $325 !!!!!!
Hope someone can help. She was ticketed under HTA 32 (1) with the offense shown as
"Drive Motor Vehicle no license"
Can anyone tell me if this is worth the effort to get a reduction in the…
So I got pulled over for supposedly for running a stop sign. The problem is that I did a complete stop, waited a split second and started again. And yes I did stop behind the white line.
He took my information and went back to his car to write me up a ticket, came back and gave me my fine and explained to me the process. He gave me a reduced fine (65$ and ne points).
Someone has an accident in a car worth very little on highway 401 but the car is not drivable (but not in terrible shape), there is a police report filed right away in which no other cars were involved, however the car did strike a guardrail. Is it possible to handle this without involving insurance? Or is a forgone conclusion insurance will be notified by the police?
I made a minor mistake on my disclosure request - I put a "Request Date" of September 10, 2014 instead of 2015. The rest of the form is correct including offense date, fax date, trial date.
Will this affect my disclosure? Do I need to clear it up?
Also, I noticed the Ticket Combat disclosure form has a lot more information than what was posted in on this site. Is it OK to send a second…
specify in their definitions that the offence (in so many words) is only applicable if it occurs on a highway. Private property is not a highway. Some parts of the HTA, like the requirement to report/remain at a collision, apply everywhere.
