Don't ditch your Car, OR ELSE...

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/0812 ... _liability

"That's right officer, a DEER RAN OUT IN FRONT OF ME!!" (Must burn in to memory)!!

These poor saps who ditch there cars are insured by companies who have agreed to take a chance on them. They have every right to tell them to shop elsewhere yet they have taken their premiums and agreed to cover them. My insurance company and I have a signed contract that protects me even if an accident is MY fault (like every other law-abiding driver). Now the police are going to interfere with that contract???? How 'bout this Fantino... BUT OUT OF MY BUSINESS!!

I can't help but suspect he's on the take with the insurance industry. He determines that I should have KNOWN there was a sudden slick section, or that I should have been going slower, and my insurance company doesn't have to pay up?? I have to pay the damages myself?? Oh yah! He's getting something here.

I want to know if a car in the ditch is going to be proof enough to convict. Clearly, very few of these "offenses" will be witnessed by an officer, leaving a "he-said she-said" fiasco's between public witnesses. How honest do you think people are going to be when the outcome will determine who is going to lose his house in the settlement.

Here's to your destruction Fantino. Can't wait to read about one of YOUR family members suffer under your Province-wrecking initiatives! Of course that'll never happen though, right?

Some may agree with this proposal, guess he's dreaming up new laws seeing he's out of the hot seat for a little while longer!

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/550290

Just heard on AM640:The CLOWN got shot down

Is the ground wet in this photo?

Just heard on AM640:The CLOWN got shot down

I missed the show... can you fill me in on the details?

As for the two OPP cruisers...

I'm getting really tired of all of this *EDIT* about how there's a desperate need to stop collisions from occurring in Ontario, to the point of turning our legal system into a circus freakshow. When it snows, cars are going to crash, yes people need to be more careful, here's an idea: Use the EXISTING laws and charge them with CARELESS DRIVING!

Of course they'll mess it up when they try to put the laws in place, so that if I'm sitting stopped at a light in a snowstorm and some bonehead phone whale ploughs into me and I get packed off to the hospital, my insurance won't cover it because the other driver is supposed to pay, and his insurance won't cover it. Then they'll find out the guy doesn't have any money, so I'm out of a car, out of work for a period of time and completely screwed with no recourse. Yippy-skippy happy-happy-joy-joy. And I'm sure they'll write it that way, too.

Also his statement that "this mirrors laws in the US," perhaps he'd like to find out what he's talking about, because that is completely wrong. Many states have fines for not adjusting to the road conditions, but as for cancelling your insurance, no. The only thing this law does is provide incentive for reckless drivers to hit and run.

I don't get it. There's nothing between the ears and yet they continually come up with new ideas to make Ontarians' lives miserable. How is this possible? I'm going with the alien possession theory.

Radar Identified wrote:

Just heard on AM640:The CLOWN got shot down

I missed the show... can you fill me in on the details?

I heard on a AM 640 news brief that the Province will not listen to this proposal and NO Wonder...end of story!

The sooner something like gets passed the better!

I would rather see the 172 get the boot and this implemented...yesterday.

Would be a simple ticket, leave roadway, $110 and throw on 3 points.

Why? b/c no JP will convict anyone for just going in the ditch for careless and they claim it doesn't fit.

It is complete *EDIT* that as soon as snow falls or ice forms we have cars flying off the road. I have to go call to call (as do my co-workers). The roads are so bad we refuse to let tow trucks pull anyone, we simply transport the occupants to the closest restaurant/hotel. Yet at the same time 1000 others do not go in the ditch. Last storm I was going 65km to a priority call (lights/sirens)....then interviw the driver, approx speed 105km....WTF???

Might as well add in another charge.....not only follow too close, but add in "strike another vehicle from behind".

http://cfra.com/?cat=3&nid=61934

Ontario Rejects Negligent Driver Bill

CFRA News Staff

Monday, December 22, 2008

The Ontario government has rejected OPP proposed legislation that would make drivers pay for accidents caused by careless driving.

OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino says at least 40 per cent of crashes are caused by people driving too fast in poor conditions and not paying attention. His bill would have let insurance companies off the hook and made motorists pay for accidents in which they were driving aggressively in bad weather.

The offices of the public safety minister, transportation minister and premier all declined to comment on rejected legislation. Public Safety Minister Rick Bartoluccis office says the ministry is not considering any winter driving amendments to Ontarios Highway Traffic Act.

Fantino says his proposed bill mirrors laws on the books in almost every U.S. State.

Thanks, Bel.

I could be convinced that slapping someone with a fine and demerit points if they don't adjust to the road conditions is a good idea (in fact, it is), but making the driver pay for everything that insurance is supposed to cover?! Come on.

Full interview here:

http://www.640toronto.com/HostsandShows ... Audio.aspx

The insurance company always gets their money back one way or the other... If the chap was responsible for his own collision, then his insurance company will pay, but his premiums will go through the roof, so he ends up paying anyway. Why change something that works?

Fantino must be on crack!

"Commissioner Julian Fantino will propose absolute liability legislation today under the Highway Traffic Act to hold irresponsible drivers accountable. This essentially means making drivers pay for accidents in which they were driving aggressively in poor weather, not insurance companies "

HELLOOO! People just don't go into the ditch for no reason. The weather is a HUGE factor!

You don't have to be speeding or driving aggressively to lose control in a winter storm.

Last winter, me and my friend got stuck in a ditch during a storm, and no we were not speeding or driving like crazy kids, but in fact when the CAA truck came to rescue us...HE GOT STUCK TOO!

The CAA truck guy who was suppose to get us out of the ditch, found himself stuck in the snow for 30 minutes before he pulled us out, and even he was not safe from the weather.

So blaming people and calling them bad drivers, when there is a massive storm out side, just doesn't seem to be a logical proposal.

Why not blame City Services Department(s) for not salting/sanding the roads too? This is perhaps much more responsible for crashes. A friend of mine had an accident when he was driving at about 60 in a posted 70, came to a curve in the road, there was black ice on it. Car spun 4 times before it came to rest wrapped around a pine tree, somewhere in Wellington County. My friend was lucky to have minor cuts and bruises, instead of a lengthy hospital stay.

hwybear wrote:

The sooner something like gets passed the better!

I would rather see the 172 get the boot and this implemented...yesterday.

Would be a simple ticket, leave roadway, $110 and throw on 3 points.

Why? b/c no JP will convict anyone for just going in the ditch for careless and they claim it doesn't fit.

It is complete *EDIT* that as soon as snow falls or ice forms we have cars flying off the road. I have to go call to call (as do my co-workers). The roads are so bad we refuse to let tow trucks pull anyone, we simply transport the occupants to the closest restaurant/hotel. Yet at the same time 1000 others do not go in the ditch. Last storm I was going 65km to a priority call (lights/sirens)....then interviw the driver, approx speed 105km....WTF???

Someone driving 105 in a severesnow storm is a prime example of stupidity. Someone hitting a patch of black ice going 50-60, and losing control of his vehicle because of that... Shouldn't deserve 3 points, don't you think? Or else, someone hears sirens/sees light of a cop cruiser/ambulance/fire truck, pulls over, loses control because the sides of the roads are never plowed well enough, goes into a ditch. Would be funny if it were a cop cruiser, who would have stopped to ticket the poor guy.

Don't be shy, send Julian a letter tell him what you think of his proposal!

Commissioner Fantino

3rd floor

777 Memorial Avenue

Orillia, Ontario

L3V 7V3.

Hmm... write Commissioner Fantino a letter... tempting...

Someone going 105 km/h in a heavy snowstorm = Careless Driving, Proceed on Highway Like a Moron, and Operate Motor Vehicle While Dumber than Box of Hammers. Throw the book at him.

Someone going 50-60 km/h, hitting patch of black ice and going off road = Accident. It happens. This kind of driver is not a dangerous criminal, or even a bad driver. Hope your friend's okay!

BelSlySTi wrote:

Is the ground wet in this photo?

Seems like someone has decided to ram a cop cruiser from the front. Must've had a 172...

racer wrote:

Why not blame City Services Department(s) for not salting/sanding the roads too?

People rely way too much on someone else to do something, then to blame them for their own inaction of driving according to weather. It is Canada, when it is less than 5C, one should start to expect ice on the roads (wind can lower the temperature below freezing).

Do people leave earlier and slow down to destinations....No

Do people stay home rather than going out for nothing...No

Do people switch to winter tires...No

Do they even check their all season tires for tread depth..No

lots more of this stuff....

side note...I missed a family x-mas dinner on Sunday, why..blowing snow, my car never moved an inch. My family at home is more important than filling my face with turkey.

admin wrote:

HELLOOO! People just don't go into the ditch for no reason. The weather is a HUGE factor!

Absolutely no reason to go in the ditch. Weather is not a factor, it is the motorist who fails to adapt to the weather, again it's Canada, drivers should expect it. If the weather is the factor....why is every vehicle not in?

In respect to vehicles in the ditch, I have probably been to 600 vehicles in the ditch over 12yrs. I can never ever recall someone travelling 40-50km going into the ditch. The vehicles are 3 or more metres from the road, just doesn't happen in the area that I have patrolled, that someone going slow goes that far in!

People rely way too much on someone else to do something, then to blame them for their own inaction of driving according to weather.

If the entire bill for the crash is going to be shipped to a driver, as opposed to the way it's done now, I don't think partially faulting the city for failing to adequately clear the roads is unreasonable. As for ticketing the driver for not adjusting to conditions, I say that's different. The Ice Storm of '98 was a good example. I was in Ottawa, driving on the Queensway which was a skating rink after five hours of freezing rain, most people going 30 km/h except the ones who later hit the guardrail or ended up in the ditch. One moron in an SUV (look, I've got 4WD, I can go as fast as I want) was going about 100-110, lost control, hit the centre median, spun across three lanes of traffic, hit the opposite wall and then swung back over and hit the centre median again, finally coming to a rest. It was like watching a ping-pong ball, except the ping-pong ball would be smarter. What would you charge him with?

On some occasions a driver who is adjusting his/her speed, having reduced quite a bit, still skids/slides after unexpectedly hitting a patch that's WAY more slippery than what they'd been coping with for 20 minutes. Sometimes they recover with no real problems, other times it's at the absolute worst location, which, it sounds like is what happened to racer's friend. So what should be done in that case? Nothing? Ticket for $110? Bill for $10 000 for towing, car repair, fix guardrail, police investigation, doctor/hospital?

It is Canada, when it is less than 5C, one should start to expect ice on the roads (wind can lower the temperature below freezing).

I'm a little lost here. A bridge or overpass can get ice on it in above-zero temperatures because the venturi effect of wind passing under it can lower the temperature of the bridge structure and road to below that of the air around it and cause freezing if there's sufficient moisture... but elsewhere in above-zero temperatures? Of course the temp can drop during the night or if a cold front blows through...

hwybear wrote:

admin wrote:

HELLOOO! People just don't go into the ditch for no reason. The weather is a HUGE factor!

Absolutely no reason to go in the ditch. Weather is not a factor, it is the motorist who fails to adapt to the weather, again it's Canada, drivers should expect it. If the weather is the factor....why is every vehicle not in?

If that was the case then why do most of the motorist that do fall in the ditches happen to fall in most in winter? Does that mean that those drivers are simply bad drivers then? Or does it sound more logical to assume that Yes the weather was a factor and that resulted in unforeseen events which caused the accident. I don't think its fair to blame the drivers when we get some of the harshest winters in the world here in Canada.

Mother Nature is not always on our side, and to penalize the driver for that would not be a fair law.

admin wrote:

[

If that was the case then why do most of the motorist that do fall in the ditches happen to fall in most in winter? Does that mean that those drivers are simply bad drivers then? .

Simply drivers not adapting to changing weather and road conditions that frequent in the winter months.

Then it has to be either inattentiveness for not noticing the changing conditions or outright bad driving.

Today was a classic example, I went to several vehicles in the ditch today. Not one driver was under 90km/hr (posted 100km), 80% were in the passsing lane (not the cleanest of the 2 lanes), None of these vehicles had an actual snow tire, one actually was a summer tire. I was travelling

60-75km/hr tops all day with snow tires. I was not passed by any vehicle, nor did I catch others at those speeds.

Twice, not only was I at scene, but fire and EMS arrived, now we have more wasted emergency services, unnecessarily used, possibly taken away from a real emergency, all b/c someone drives off the road.

Add in other cruisers stopping to assist me, and give passing motorists that much more heads up that we are working, slow down, so we don't get hit. Now what would you think when your home is on fire, or loved one needs EMS, someone is actively being assaulted....and that service you require is tied up? Someone will come, but it will be another zone service, thus it takes longer.

I can only come to the conclusion that we will agree to disagree on the issue, but I fully support my boss in attempting to get this law passed.

You're Boss or Not , here's a guy who want's legislation passed for Drivers to be held accountable for thier actions, Yet he tries to side step justice in his own backyard!

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/561407

Fantino and his "Do as I say and Not as I do" attitude can go and police Peawanuck Ontario!

I will say that Fantino looked pretty unimpressed in the photo!

Radar Identified wrote:

I will say that Fantino looked pretty unimpressed in the photo!

I was too distracted by all the shiny things hanging on him to notice!

There is no room for a cop that wants to make the laws that he enforces. Having input is one thing, but creating and modifying, no.

I would like to know who's footing the Bill for his legal counsel in ongoing legal battles with McHale and the one in his backyard, anyone know of any others?

I think there should be room for police through a representative, whether it is the commissioner or chief of police to suggest to government laws that should be in place.

There are many issues not seen by people directly at the front line that police routinely see, then they think a new law is bad.

The government still has to discuss, debate and vote on the issue. It may be the police lobbying for the law, but at the end of the day, the politician voted in by "the people" will decide.

Police should be able to give input and offer suggestions. You shouldn't have to surrender your rights as a Canadian citizen when you become a police officer. As for legislating or demanding the government do this or that, no, can't agree with that. Fantino was the one who advocated for including 50 km/h over as "stunt driving," and, well, we all know where that went. Yeah, he didn't legislate or enact it but he got really heavily involved in the process.

hwybear wrote:

I think there should be room for police through a representative, whether it is the commissioner or chief of police to suggest to government laws that should be in place.

There are many issues not seen by people directly at the front line that police routinely see, then they think a new law is bad.

The government still has to discuss, debate and vote on the issue. It may be the police lobbying for the law, but at the end of the day, the politician voted in by "the people" will decide.

It seems that Fantino is the voice for all. It's not a bad thing but it looks like the ideas are his and his alone. I personally like a police board, made up of traffic, crime and other units, to voice the opinion of officers. Ontario already has the safest roads in the major provinces, why do we need more and more "parenting"? Listening to the radio today on the 1.5 hour drive to work and officer Woodford reminded the listeners about black ice and how it forms. I learned that one when I was 16 and have not forgotten it. Do we all need refresher courses to renew our licenses???? I am so confused

Wait till Julian hears about this, wonder what detachment these guys will be shipped off to next week!

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 58141.html

ONTARIO -- Two OPP officers have been injured in a two vehicle crash north Brampton on Saturday that involved two of their own cruisers.

The crash happened near the intersection of King Street and Torbram Road in Caledon just before 2 p.m.

The officers were responding to a 911 call in the area. Police say both officers suffered minor injuries.

The officers were responding to reports of a domestic assault inside a home on King Street. When they arrived, a suspect was leaving the home causing one cruiser to slam on its breaks to avoid colliding with the suspect's vehicle which resulted in the first cruiser being rear-ended by a second cruiser following in pursuit.

The victim of the assault has been airlifted to hospital with serious head injuries.