Red Light Camera Warning Signage Legislation?

I'm sure there is legislation that states a red light camera must have a warning sign prior to it, as every red light camera has one, and I've seen a news article reference said legislation, however they were not specific enough. Have checked the HTA, found nothing on the subject, didn't expect to find anything in there.

I sent the same question to the City of Ottawa.

Their reply was that those signs are a courtesy, and although they put them at all the intersections in the city with a camera (on all approaches tho, not just the direction of the camera), they are under no obligation to do so. They told me the signs are not required by the regulations in the HTA, but they try to have them in place to "assist with driver education".

However, interestingly, the specific intersection I questioned had the missing signs erected immediately - by the end of the same day I sent in the email.

I don't believe that to be true, wouldn't trust the city. I'd want to see something in writing.

The city of Kingston states in a red light camera FAQ that:

"All intersections with red light cameras must be signed on all 4 approaches".

Source: https://www.cityofkingston.ca/documents/10180/15058/Kingston_Traffic_RedLightCamera_FAQ.pdf/47b382f3-0cc6-4163-8bc2-409865d312cd

There has to be some legislation, or even guideline somewhere.

I'm sure that sign went back up that fast because the city didn't want to jeopardize even one day's worth of revenue from that approach at the intersection. Meaning, hypothetically of course, that tickets contested in court could win on that basis.

Interesting related article about warning signage distance in Ontario where individual beat ticket in court claiming:

"The red-light camera warning sign is 100 feet before the intersection, it needs to be 400 feet before to give people a chance to react."

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/4954735-vaughan-man-beats-325-red-light-camera-ticket-in-court/

imnotguilty wrote: Fri May 03, 2019 9:13 am

I'm sure there is legislation that states a red light camera must have a warning sign prior to it, as every red light camera has one, and I've seen a news article reference said legislation, however they were not specific enough. Have checked the HTA, found nothing on the subject, didn't expect to find anything in there.

There is no legal requirement for warning signs. Any sign should be considered as a courtesy. In the end, they are not instructing you to do anything.

imnotguilty wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 8:56 pm

I don't believe that to be true, wouldn't trust the city. I'd want to see something in writing.

The city of Kingston states in a red light camera FAQ that:

"All intersections with red light cameras must be signed on all 4 approaches".

Source: https://www.cityofkingston.ca/documents/10180/15058/Kingston_Traffic_RedLightCamera_FAQ.pdf/47b382f3-0cc6-4163-8bc2-409865d312cd

There has to be some legislation, or even guideline somewhere.

I'm sure that sign went back up that fast because the city didn't want to jeopardize even one day's worth of revenue from that approach at the intersection. Meaning, hypothetically of course, that tickets contested in court could win on that basis.

Guidelines, FAQ's, Driving Manuals, etc are not legal material. At the end of the day, they will all usually tell you to refer back to the HTA.

imnotguilty wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 8:58 pm

Interesting related article about warning signage distance in Ontario where individual beat ticket in court claiming:

"The red-light camera warning sign is 100 feet before the intersection, it needs to be 400 feet before to give people a chance to react."

https://www.toronto.com/news-story/4954735-vaughan-man-beats-325-red-light-camera-ticket-in-court/

He did not beat the ticket with that argument. That type of argument would be considered during trial, not before. The ticket was dismissed for whatever reason. There are tons of reasons why that may be. It is not explained in the article.

And FYI. The City of Kingston doesn't have red light cameras.