OHTA.ca

Well, my first time going to Windsor, I got flaged down by an OPP officer for speeding. According to him, he had me at 136 (!!!!) and I passed him at 127.

So, I pull over, stop the car, shift into park put on the handbrake and shut off the engine and wait. He comes up to me and asks me a few things, I forgot what was said entirely but I remember at one point he asked me why I was in a hurry and I said I had an appointment soon, it was my first time going to Windsor, and I was unfamilliar with the place. Will me saying that bite me if I go to court?

He tells me he wrote me down to 129 from 136, in order to save me some money and one demerit point, and hands me a well written ticket. I can't even try to get off on a ticket error. Lovely. (Is this common? It seems I'm not the only one who's had officers tell them "I reduced the speed")

Now I have a ticket and I'm thinking option 3. It seems option 1 is pointless and option 2 is worse. Now I have some questions for all of you.

1. Do I risk getting bit in the behind by the 136 speed if I choose option 3? Should I still go option 3 still?

2. How hard will what I said to the officer bite me if I go to court?

3. I have until the 24th of Sep to pick an option, according to the ticket. The courhouse is in Blenheim, Ontario, which is pretty far from Windsor and Mississauga, the two places I'll be living at. I can apparently mail in the ticket (I called Blenheim's office). What do they use for the 15 days, when I mailed it or when they receive it?

4. Assuming I feel safer handing it in person, is it true traffic tickets can be handed in at any provincial courts office (so I can do it in Windsor or Mississauga), as opposed to parking tickets which must be brought to the court of the city the offence took place in?

5. I've been reading up on ticketcombat's website alot, and see this as my course of action:

a. request option 3

b. wait for court date to be assigned

c. request disclosure

d. hope I'll be able to get something to request a stay with

Is this correct? I'm kind of lost on what to do after all this, especially if the prosecutor goes all out and gives me everything I asked for in disclosure and I dont get the chance to request a stay of procedures, which I'm kind of expecting, cause it's Blenheim and not Toronto and they probably have the time to do it all in a fast and efficient manner. Please help.

I can guarantee that the OPP will show up for this trial, given the area. As for the other stuff, there is definitely a risk that the speed would be amended up to 136 from 129, but I can't say with any certainty how much that risk would be. Some Prosecutors make it a matter of routine, and I am told that the one in the Chatham area is one who does. As for plea-bargaining to a lesser speed... don't know how successful that may be, it may be worth a try in this case, but again I can't say for sure.

So....it sounds like I'll be screwed the moment I pick option 3?

This is what I'm getting

OPP gauranteed to show (as I had suspected)

Prosecutor most likely will ammend ticket up (hardcore prosecution?)

Assuming that kind of prosecution, plea bargaining possibility is low, work might be through, if I ask for everything they'd hit me with it.

Anyone have anything else they can tell me? Maybe someone that has delt with the Chatham area court?

The back of my ticket says Blenheim specifically, is this the same as the Chatham court with the hardcore prosecution or a different one?

I got one more week to decide on a course of action...please help!

Hi all, back again with an update, and a cry for help...

I faxed off a request for disclosure 2 weeks ago to Chatham court, and got the following in the mail sometime this week (I painted out officer's and my information):

I noticed that no radar/ lidar manual was provided, and am about to fax off another request asking for it specifically.

Below is what I sent in my request (I only copy pasted my request portion of the letter), based on TicketCombat's website's sample disclosure:

"General Request

With regard to the above matter and in light of the guidelines set out in R. v. Stinchcombe, 1991 CANLII 45 (S.C.C.), and subsequent cases, I am requesting that you provide me with all relevant information and documentation so that I may prepare my defence against the above charge and make full answer.

Specific Request

Without limiting the generality of the above request, I ask that you also include:

o a full copy of the police officers notes;

o a copy of both sides of the officers copy of the ticket (Notice of Offence);

o a typed version of any hand written notes;

o a copy of the radar/lidar manual for the radar/lidar used by the officer

Missing Information

I also request that you advise me of any information, which is not being disclosed and an explanation for such non-disclosure.

If you require further information from me or have any questions regarding my request for disclosure please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thank you."

My question is this:

Is there anything I missed I should be asking for?

Also, I thought disclosure packages were supposed to be picked up in person, and not mailed?

Thanks in advance for any and all replies!

Okay, so I thought about it again, and realize I'm at the point where if I dont file for a stay, I wont be able to later on. Since I can't journey down to Chatham, I had to choose the fax method. I faxed both Attorney Generals and the Prosecutor's office:

FORM 4F

Courts of Justice Act

Notice of Constitutional Question

R. v. "madtkboy"

TAKE NOTICE THAT pursuant to the Ontario Courts of Justice Act, the defendant, "madtkboy," will make an application for:

1. Relief under Section 24(1) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms on the following grounds:

a. That his rights under Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms have been violated.

AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE THAT the matter is to be argued on Wed, Feb. 09, 2011 at Ontario Court of Justice, Provincial Offences Court, 21633 Communication Road, R.R. #5, Blenheim, Ontario.

AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE THAT the material facts giving rise to the constitutional question are as follows:

On January 07, 2011 I requested disclosure from the Crown. I also specifically requested a copy of the radar manual and typed copies of the officer's notes, neither of which were provided.

The Crown has a duty to disclose information that is useful to the defence in order to know the evidence against them, prepare for trial and make full answer to the charge. (R. v. Stinchcombe, 1991 CanLII 45 (S.C.C.); R. v. O'Connor, 1995 CanLII 51 (S.C.C.))

The Crown has failed to meet its disclosure obligation and in doing so has violated my section 7 Charter right.

I respectfully request an order allowing the application and granting a stay of proceedings pursuant to Section 24(1) of the Charter.

1. The offence number is 1660 999 00 1999838A-00;

2. The date of the alleged offence is Sep 09, 2010;

3. The date set for trial is Feb. 09, 2011;

4. The date the defendant requested complete disclosure via fax and mail is Jan. 07, 2011;

5. The defendant received incomplete disclosure via mail on Jan. 18, 2011;

AND FURTHER TAKE NOTICE THAT the grounds for this constitutional question are as follows:

1. The Crown was given ample time to prepare for the disclosure;

2. That the Crown failed to provide adequate disclosure for the defendant to prepare a full answer to the charge prior to trial;

3. No reason was given by the Crown to explain why complete disclosure was not provided.

Jan. 21, 2011

"madtkboy" (plus my address)

TO:

Provincial Prosecutor's Office

21633 Communication Road, R.R. #5,

Blenheim, On. N0P 1A0

fax: (519) 352-7979

The Attorney General of Ontario

Constitutional Law Branch

7th floor

720 Bay Street

Toronto, Ontario M5G 2K1

fax: (416) 326-4015

The Attorney General of Canada

Suite 3400, Exchange Tower

Box 36, First Canadian Place

Toronto, Ontario M5X 1K6

fax: (416) 973-3004

So...I guess here on out it's to research how to make a point for a stay and wait for the 9th and make my argument?

It's rather unfortunate that I did not have time to file for disclosure earlier than Jan 7th....I'm wondering how much this will affect my chances of getting a stay, even though I filed for the stay in time..

Advice please?

Make sure you get affidavits of service for each party that you served via fax.

What will probably happen is the JP will order the Crown to produce the disclosure materials and adjourn to another day.

To obtain said affidavits, do I journey down to each party's offices?

I thought the fax method did not require an affidavit?

Fax method absolutely requires an affidavit of service. You can't just show up with the fax receipts as proof that you've served all of the appropriate parties, you need an affidavit. You also have to file the paperwork with the court, including the affidavits.

So can this be done at a local court, or does this require me to go to Chatham to get an affidavit?

I'm quite confused, as ticketcombat's site makes me think that the affidavit is only necessary when filing in person.

If fax method requires going to Chatham for an affidavit, how is fax method any different from filing in person?

Please help out and walk me through what I should be doing...

Thanks for the responses so far Radar Identified!

(Simon Borys and diehard please feel free to help out here...)

An Affidavit is basically a legal statement by you that you did, said, or saw something. An Affidavit of Service is you saying, on paper, sworn by a Commissioner of Oaths or a Notary Public, that you served someone with a notice, form, document, etc. To get this, you type out a statement to the effect of (for example):

"On January 10, 2011, I, "madtkboy," served the Attorney-General of Canada with a Notice of Application and Constitutional Issue by sending a fax to (whatever their number is)."

You then bring that, plus your fax receipt, to a Commissioner of Oaths (most law offices have them) or a Notary, who will have you swear, under oath, that it is true, then they will have you sign the form, then they will sign and stamp it. This process will be repeated, except you will replace "Attorney-General of Canada" with "Attorney-General of Ontario" and the Prosecutor's office, as required. Photocopy each. Bring each affidavit (the paper with your statement, with the fax receipt attached) and your original paperwork to the courthouse in Blenheim. Make sure it is filed with the court well in advance of your trial date. Keep proof that each of them is filed.

Google the term "Ontario court form 16B."

Also read this:

Granted, you are not filing an 11B, but the paperwork is pretty similar. Affidavits of Service are definitely required if you serve via fax. Generally, in my experience, they are not required if you serve in person, because the receiving party stamps the form.

madtkboy did you win?