OHTA.ca

My wife recently received a ticket for failing to obey a red light, and was charged under 144.18.

Here's the scenario.

She was already stopped. Green arrow light lit, she proceeded except she went straight through instead of following the arrow.

She was charged under 144.18 instead of the section that relates to failing to follow the direction indicated by the green light.

What are her chances of beating it?

If it were me, I'd not speak to the Crown. I'd plead not-guilty and wait for my trial date. I would not file for Disclosure. I would wait until the Crown has finished questioning his witness (the officer). Then when it's my turn to question the officer:

- "Was I facing a circular red light?"

<NO>

- "Did I proceed through a circular red light?"

<NO>

I would then read the Statute out loud and ask him if he agrees that you have read 144.18 correctly.

I would NOT take the stand in my own defense or answer ANY questions asked by the Crown or the JP. My closing statement would be, "Your worship, the Crown has failed to prove the necessary elements of Section 144.18 of which I was charged. The Crowns witness appears to have described elements of a different charge which I was not described on the charging document, and therefore. I ask that this charge be dismissed."

If at ANY time, the Crown attempts to amend the charge, I would strongly object. "Your worship, this is not a minor error on the ticket. I am prepared to defend myself against the charge shown on the ticket only. If the Crown is not prepared to proceed with the charge on the ticket, I ask that it be dismissed at this time."

The reason I would NOT talk to the Crown earlier is I don't want to bring the error to his attention. The officer only has 15 days to write a new ticket. The Crown COULD write a Part III withing 6-months (fixing the ticket with a new charge) but it is very unlikely he would do that if you already spent one day in court fighting the original charge

Just my opinion...

Book

Thanks Book,

Your opinion has been duly noted. Just an add-on to the original post, the ticket does not specify where the infraction occured. It was in Wasaga Beach, and the ticket only states, "Mosley Street, Wasaga Beach". No indication as to where on Mosley, and that street is long with a number of traffic lights. Also, the issuing officer's name is not clearly legible on the top of the ticket, nor is the year of the vehicle recorded on the ticket. Was wondering if any of these have any bearing on the validity of the ticket?

All of those omissions can be amended at trial, and the proceedings will commence. If the officers name was missing completely, that would be a different story. Location and (minor) vehicle description omissions are not considered "fatal"

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted on our results, in the mean time, I've got to keep her calm as the "big day" approaches.

Ya, I know it's hard on the nerves, LOL. Just tell her to try to have fun with it and learn as much as possible. It'll make the next one that much easier

I always just paid my tickets until, one day, a friend of the family overheard me whining about some cheesey ticket I got. She sat me down and convinced me to prepare a defense and have it heard in court. She was a friend of my mothers, and she seemed to know what she was talking about. I eventually learned that she was a sitting Justice of the Peace in our local court, LOL. At the time, I didn't even know what that was! I won that first trial and the thrill I felt has encouraged me to learn more and help others stand up for themselves.

This is the wife and here is how it happened.......

I was stopped at a red light with a police officer right behind me. Apparently the left turn arrow came on and the car beside me made his turn and i also proceeded straight through the red light. Needless to say the police officer pulled me over right away and i was issued the ticket. It was a very bad day for me and i guess i did not notice the light was only showing a green arrow. At the time the officer pulled me over, I had no idea what I had done. He informed me after he had all my info and gave me a ticket "Red light....proceed before green"...."144.18"

Do I have any chance or should I just sign and send it in?

Ahh, that's a bit different. I would still plead not-guilty, wait for her court date, show up for court 15 minutes early. An announcement will be made for those who have not spoken to the Prosecutor to form a line. When it's her turn, ask the Crown (prosecutor) to consider a change to Fail to Obey Sign (2 points instead of 3). This is standard procedure and will most likely be accepted by the Crown.

If your feeling gutsy, you could also ask for a reduction in the fine. A couple days ago in court, we were facing a $100 fine. We asked for a reduction to $40. The Crown countered with $50 plus $15 court costs. We would have accepted if we had no case, but we went ahead with a trial instead, and won.

But it is still a fact that with the cop behind me, I did stop for the red light and did not proceed till the green arrow was lit. I just went straight instead of turning with the arrow. Im so confused and not sure what to do and time is running out. I have to make some decision.?????????

My husband thinks I was charged under the wrong sub-section. I should have been charged under sub 14 not 18 and he thinks I can beat this ticket. I have never gotten a ticket before, nevermind to fight one.

Then I'd go back to this plan:

Bookm wrote:If it were me, I'd not speak to the Crown. I'd plead not-guilty and wait for my trial date. I would not file for Disclosure. I would wait until the Crown has finished questioning his witness (the officer). Then when it's my turn to question the officer:

- "Was I facing a circular red light?"

<NO>

- "Did I proceed through a circular red light?"

<NO>

I would then read the Statute out loud and ask him if he agrees that you have read 144.18 correctly.

I would NOT take the stand in my own defense or answer ANY questions asked by the Crown or the JP. My closing statement would be, "Your worship, the Crown has failed to prove the necessary elements of Section 144.18 of which I was charged. The Crowns witness appears to have described elements of a different charge which I was not described on the charging document, and therefore. I ask that this charge be dismissed."

If at ANY time, the Crown attempts to amend the charge, I would strongly object. "Your worship, this is not a minor error on the ticket. I am prepared to defend myself against the charge shown on the ticket only. If the Crown is not prepared to proceed with the charge on the ticket, I ask that it be dismissed at this time."

The reason I would NOT talk to the Crown earlier is I don't want to bring the error to his attention. The officer only has 15 days to write a new ticket. The Crown COULD write a Part III withing 6-months (fixing the ticket with a new charge) but it is very unlikely he would do that if you already spent one day in court fighting the original charge

No matter how you decide to handle your defense, at LEAST plead not-guilty and get your ticket down to the court house. This will buy you plenty of time to form a strategy. And if you decide to change your plea later, you can (even on the day of your trial if you wish).

If it is determined that the wrong statute was cited, express your concern to the JP at trial, "I am here today to defend myself against the charge as stated on the ticket. Since the evidence does not support the necessary elements of Section 18, I ask that the charge be dismissed".... or something like that.

One option you may wish to argue if you choose to waive your right to a trial and enter a guilty plea, may be to negotiate to a lessor charge of Disobey Lane Light, under section 144(10) of the H.T.A. This option, should the prosecutor agree to it, would reduce the demerit points from 3 down to 2, and your insurance company may also view this as a less serious conviction. I use this strategy quite often and in my jurisdiction, it seems to work well.

If the officer does not show for trial and I am offered a lesser fine, if I turn down the lesser fine would the original offence be thrown out or would a new date be given.

Make sure you see the officer before doing anything. If he's there, then look to pleading guilty to a lesser charge. The charge will be handled that day.

If you don't see the officer, he may be in another court room or outside. If the officer does not show up, there is no witness. They have to toss your charge in which case you don't want to plead guilty to anything because you can walk away innocent.

Of course they are not going to tell you if he's there. Think of it like playing poker, everyone is bluffing a little bit. Whoever has nerves of steel usually wins.

The trial was initiated by the cop who charged you. He has an obligation by law to be in court. If you believe youre going to win the case on merit you can demand the court issue a warrant for his arrest.

You can sue him in Small Claims Court for little expense on your part for your costs and any economic loss for the day.

For example, you mightve taken the day off work. You might've wasted a vacation day. You mightve paid for legal advice if youre representing yourself. You mightve hired a lawyer to represent you. All of these expenses will be paid to you by the cop. You can also seek damages against the Police Service Board, the City and the Province.

You can also file a complaint against the cop under the Police Service Act.