OHTA.ca

Motorists caught driving minutes after losing licences

Almost 267,000 people have suspended licences in Ontario

CBC News

CBC News cameras caught a handful of men driving minutes after having their licences suspended — just a few examples of the vast number of people who continue to take to the road despite being barred from doing so, says a traffic safety group.

The Ontario Ministry of Transportation said there were almost 266,698 suspended drivers in the province in 2008. Mothers Against Drunk Driving estimates 75 per cent of those people continued to drive.

CBC News went to a courtroom in east Toronto last week and quickly encountered people who brazenly flouted their recent suspensions.

"The first four trials we sat through where people were convicted and [whose licences were] suspended — every one of those four drivers went back out into the parking lot and actually drove away," said the CBC's John Lancaster.

Khan Din had his driver's licence suspended on Friday after being convicted of violating another driving suspension. But he got into his truck in the parking lot of the court at Markham Road and Sheppard Avenue East and drove off on Highway 401.

When he finished his journey and parked his car, a CBC News crew confronted him.

"I have to drive to work every day. Otherwise, I will lose my job," he said.

When asked how he could drive with a suspended licence, he replied: "You have to drive safely, that's all."

A familiar sight

"It was a scene that played out again and again," Lancaster said.

Hassan Farouk drove away in this van minutes after telling a judge he didn't have a driver's licence. (CBC)

Andrew Roxburgh has 34 driving convictions, including nine different suspensions. His licence was supended again on Wednesday, but he went straight from the court to his van.

Kandiah Krishnapille was given a $1,300 fine and a six-month driving suspension on Thursday. He got behind the wheel of his car in the parking lot of the court.

A CBC News crew confronted him and asked him why he was driving with the suspended licence. Krishnapille maintained he was only fined and was not served with a licence suspension.

Hassan Farouk, meanwhile, told court he didn't have a licence anymore, but he drove off in a van minutes later.

"We refer to suspended drivers as your high-risk road offenders because they really put undue risk on all of us," said Sgt. Tim Burrows of the Toronto Police Service.

"It's a situation that we really do have to protect society from these people."

Brian Patterson, the president of traffic safety group the Ontario Safety League, said the province's laws do not hold suspended drivers accountable for their actions.

"I think it's time to have it looked at [again] by the attorney general," he said. "We have to put teeth back into that regulation because frankly, it's a privilege to drive, and we allow people to [abuse] that privilege, and we simply don't make them accountable."

The safety league has suggested that repeat offenders be put on probation or even given jail time.

"Clearly, the number of fatalities that involve suspended drivers tells us that people are dying," Patterson said.

Some police forces in the province have allocated special resources to enforce suspensions. Police in York Region have a specialized unit that deals solely with suspended drivers — officers watch people as they come out of court to make sure they don't get back behind the wheel.

Burrows, meanwhile, said that it's important to enforce the rules, but there's only so much police can do given the current laws.

"Outside of putting an ankle bracelet monitoring system on these people that in some cases haven't committed a criminal offence — that's the only way we can truly track them when they don't care about laws and the judicial process."

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/ ... z0kbCH3l61

If someone is really determined to drive, it is extraordinarily difficult to stop them, unless you put them in jail. Here's an idea:

- If the driver owns a vehicle, unless the driver demonstrates that the vehicle is required by someone else who does not have a licence suspension, "boot" the vehicle until the end of the suspension

- If caught driving, seize vehicle and return to a Justice; if it was owned by the driver, Justice will decide whether to confiscate, impound until end of suspension, or whatever; if not owned by the driver, return to owner with notice not to allow driver to use vehicle until suspension is over, if it occurs again, it is subject to seizure (unless taken without permission);

- If caught driving again, time for jail.

Radar Identified wrote:- If the driver owns a vehicle, unless the driver demonstrates that the vehicle is required by someone else who does not have a licence suspension, "boot" the vehicle.

OK, but I have 6 cars, so you better bring a lot of boots! LOL

Bookm wrote:

OK, but I have 6 cars, so you better bring a lot of boots! LOL

OK, we'd throw you in jail and sell the cars....there done...

So, close to 300,000 people are driving on suspended licenses? How many licensed drivers are in Ontario? I'd figure that for every 9 vehicle-owners, there's one driving his on a suspended license. I'd draw 2 possible confusions from that:

1) That we have an extremely high percentage of street-racing drunk-driving criminals

2) That our enforcement practices are too strict

Considering the general claims by the ministry that Ontario's roads are among the safest in the world, guess which one of those possibilities I'd pick

Well if we aren't catching 300,000 suspended drivers, I think we need to get stricter!

Secondly, nobody is ever found guilty on the spot, these all involve pleading guilty or being found guilty.

Today I'm out riding my own motorcycle, having posted something earlier I was in an enforcement mindframe (though off duty), so I started counting people not wearing seat belts, not signalling, speeding...I was out for an hour...over 160 moving violations! I don't think the issue is enforcement, it's just people get their licences, then go out and not practice the same safe driving practices they needed to pass the test.

Seriously, I'm 40 years of age, have spent tens of thousands of hours on patrol, and tens more in my own car. Every day I see driving (especially in my low key family car) that is flagrantly illegal and moreso dangerous.

A certain fella in town passed me on my motorcycle a few summers ago like a bat outta hell (guessing 100 in a 40), at the next traffic light, he got all excited by my bike and decided on the green to lay a patch as he sped off into the wild blue yonder...I saw him light them up again outside a local bar one night when I was leaving with friends.

But when I caught him on duty driving like that the next summer, his foot slipped on the gas (I've had a 345 hp BMW and a 300hp Mustang - even if you're foot slipped on the gas - and in 500,000 kms of driving this has never once happened to me), anyone can lift their foot of the gas in about 1/10 of a second.

So buddy asks for a break, he's really nice, says he never drives like that (lie to the police, we're pretty simple folk!) and plays really innocent. So I give him the ticket, he calls me a bunch of names (I guess being nice was just to try and manipulate me) and drives off.

I totally believe we have that many suspended drivers, I see it every day...

so I started counting people not wearing seat belts, not signalling, speeding...I was out for an hour...over 160 moving violations! I don't think the issue is enforcement, it's just people get their licences, then go out and not practice the same safe driving practices they needed to pass the test.

If we drove "by the book" we'd be dead, or at least run over.

Unfortunately, what is taught is not what we do, and that includes officers. We need real rules for the real world. Real laws that are not difficult to understand or "interpret". When a "street racing" law can be used to suspend a license for squealing tires or accelerating at a pace that just 1 officer doesn't like, that should not be leverage or a threat.

For too long the civilian drivers of Ontario have been "taught" on the road. So, all you see is the bad habits of all the drivers someone may have driven next to on the highway, or taught by a family member. Hell, I never went near a 4-series highway in driver training.

Graduated licensing was a good start, but let's take it a step further. Teach new drivers "responsibility" on the road. Your "job" as a driver is to drive, not stop and stare at accidents, eat while driving, texting mmmm no, etc. You also owe your fellow drivers common courtesy. Leave space, don't lane dive, drive at one speed, use your signals. It's not hard but it's not enforced. And get out of the left lane.

At the moment too much is left to conscience and it's the little things that are left out. Blind spot checks, signals, right of way (yup, left lane), red light sneaks (stale yellows)....Enforce the little things and the big stuff falls into place, mind your pennies and you don't have to worry about the dollars.

End Rant.

Both Fyre and Reflections have a point here..

Fyre: You are correct about people getting away with flagrant violations. Everybody's taught that "speed kills" and is the biggest sin on the roads. That's why I don't see people get nailed for lack of signaling, bombarding others with their moving mounds of snow, obstructing the passing lane or talking on their hand-held cell phones. I'm sure it happens, but the bulk of HTA enforcement that I see involves stationary production-line enforcement such as speed traps, RIDE checks and seatbelt checks.

I believe that a combination of proper training and enforcement could eventually fix our society's behavior. If training reinforces proper lane discipline/road sharing and enforcement irons out the real wrinkles in our driving habits (instead of just what's easy to prove in court), driving will become safer and more enjoyable for everyone.

Reflections, I couldn't agree more.

FiReSTaRT wrote:I believe that a combination of proper training and enforcement could eventually fix our society's behavior. If training reinforces proper lane discipline/road sharing and enforcement irons out the real wrinkles in our driving habits (instead of just what's easy to prove in court), driving will become safer and more enjoyable for everyone.

Absolutely... as for speed... the German Autobahn has the lowest fatality rate per vehicle kilometre of any highway system in the world. Germany and the Scandinavian countries take driving a whole lot more seriously than we do. Instead, here it's mostly "here's your licence, now just obey the speed limit and that's all you need to know."

FyreStorm wrote:I totally believe we have that many suspended drivers, I see it every day...

Also a lot of people who may not be suspended but should not have a licence... example, this guy making the "Scarborough left turn":

"Scarborough left turn":

That wasn't Scarberia.....it never rains in Scarborough........

Reflections wrote:That wasn't Scarberia.....it never rains in Scarborough........

It wasn't Scarborough, but the guy was driving "Scarborough style," featuring such moves as:

- Make sudden turns from outside lanes (e.g. left turn from right lane, left turn from right lane)

- Drive 10-30 km/h under posted speed limit in left or middle lane

- Stop for no reason in the middle of traffic

- If in an intersection and the light turns red when waiting to turn left, don't move; stay still and block the whole intersection

- When turning onto a road, do not move when it is clear, instead wait until traffic approaches, then pull out in front of them

- Drive through stop signs without slowing down, but stop at intersections without stop signs

- What's a pedestrian?

- The Snow Car, where the car is covered with snow except the part of the windshield that can be cleaned with the activation of windshield wipers

- The Scarborough Merge: Activate signal, wait for open gap, when the lane is finally clear, do not enter lane - sit there and think about it, think some more, then when vehicle is in the gap, merge into the side of it

Oh well... maybe we need to make driver training mandatory and drastically overhaul the cirricula that driving schools are to teach...

- When turning onto a road, do not move when it is clear, instead wait until traffic approaches, then pull out in front of them

HWY 10......oh the humanity

- Drive through stop signs without slowing down, but stop at intersections without stop signs

Or stop at green lights

- The Snow Car, where the car is covered with snow except the part of the windshield that can be cleaned with the activation of windshield wipers

Seen that in Oakville too and 410 and hwy 10

Reflections wrote:HWY 10......oh the humanity

Yeah Hwy 10 is a disaster... last time I drove to Caledon I think I set a record for the number of times I dropped the f-bomb because of people doing that...

Reflections wrote:Or stop at green lights

That too...