OHTA.ca

What can you do if you witness an HTA infraction (or worse) but have no cell phone with you? I'll give an example I personally experienced.

Several years ago, I was driving on a 400 series highway, where one highway merges with another. There was a yellow speed limit posted of 70 kmh (which is the recommended speed but the limit was 100 kmh). I was in the left lane and another car was in the right lane doing around the 70 kmh limit. There were no other cars nearby. As I approached him, the other driver very suddenly swerved into my left lane and I had to slam on the brakes and swerve to avoid a collision. To say I was dumbfounded would be an understatement. I almost went off the road and attribute not doing so to the Brembo brakes I had. I drove back onto the road and slowly caught up to the other driver. I saw him point to a yellow speed limit marker of 70 kmh and then understood that he was angry he thought I was speeding (even though I legally was not), and decided to tell me so, in his own demented, vigilante way.

I was very upset but didn't have my cell phone on me at the time to call anyone. I decided to follow him, at a safe distance hoping to come across a PC. I did not threaten him or make any indications to him other than to quietly follow him - we were both doing the speed limit at this point (traffic was heavy). He apparently didn't like me following and signalled to me that he was going to call the police, by holding up his cell phone - which was exactly what I hoped he would (but he didn't). I followed him for several more km until he suddenly dashed from the centre lane (it was 3 lanes) onto an exit ramp. I followed him (signalling and checking my lanes appropriately) and at the bottom of the exit ramp was a set of traffic lights - he proceeded to blow right through a red light. At that point I decided to stop following as he was obviously out of control and I was concerned he would end up killing someone. Plus I wasn't going to break the law to follow.

The question is, what were my options? I didn't have a cellphone but I did get his tag and description of his vehicle (I still have them). Afterward, I decided not to report him as I thought it would become my word against his and without proof, I would have nothing. What recourse would I have? He could have very easily killed me that day - I could have been found dead at a highway curve without him ever being attributed to causing the accident. It definitely destroyed my trust and confidence in other drivers - there are some really stupid people out there.

Your opinions (professional or not) are appreciated. Thanks.

Simply contact the police when safe to do so. Once you have the other vehicle's information though (i.e. licence plate), I would stop following. You may have had good intentions, but it could easily make the situation worse.

I don't find this story to be other-worldly, i've seen a lot of road rage in my time, especially when I took the bus ... i still remember it clear as day, a purple 4-door sedan came infront our bus and just started brake checking to the point the driver was forced to make a hard stop, which ejected several people from their seats

I see a lot of this brake-checking, vigilante attitude on the passing lanes of highways as well ... i honestly just feel like adding metal guard around my front bumper and just pit-manoeuvre them into an overpass... i mean if they want me to hit them? why not give it to em?

Stanton wrote:Simply contact the police when safe to do so. Once you have the other vehicle's information though (i.e. licence plate), I would stop following. You may have had good intentions, but it could easily make the situation worse.

True, following him only seemed to antagonize him and that wasn't my intent. The fact that he was doing some really irrational things should have been an indicator to stay away but I couldn't think of anything else to do at that exact moment. I certainly am a lot more cautious now - I stay way clear of idiots like this.

But unless I had it on video or a witness, what could the police have actually done if I had called them? It's my word against his.

You can report it to the police, but nothing can really be done. The cops may watch out for a car matching his description for a short while (to see if they can catch him in the act), but not much else they can do. Though I've heard of instances where people have gotten so many complaints against them that they get a letter sent to their house, though I'm not sure how much truth there is to that.

FIDO. F$#K it drive on. It is a highway traffic infraction. Everyone has done something others have seen or annoyed other drivers. You were not hurt, No collision and You are not in danger once the vehicle is gone.

We get calls like this all the time. "A blue car cut me off on the 417." or a blue car is changing lanes fast . No plate no nothing. I am not sure why people think this is a an emergency and call 911.

OPS

OPS Copper wrote:FIDO. F$#K it drive on. It is a highway traffic infraction. Everyone has done something others have seen or annoyed other drivers. You were not hurt, No collision and You are not in danger once the vehicle is gone.

We get calls like this all the time. "A blue car cut me off on the 417." or a blue car is changing lanes fast . No plate no nothing. I am not sure why people think this is a an emergency and call 911.

OPS

Agreed. It wasn't an emergency (unless I had crashed) and I'm not perfect either - I've cut other drivers off unintentionally but I acknowledge it and apologize.

But this instance was intentional, unprovoked and very sudden (and ironically, while I was legally doing the speed limit).

I get cut off, etc almost every day due to other drivers inattentiveness or rookie drivers, but this guy was something else... it was the ruthlessness and deliberateness plus a total disregard for my safety that was frankly, bone-chilling. And he was OK with his action based on how he behaved afterward.

I know police agencies use occurrence based systems to track complainants, victims, etc but do they enter every little complaint... I doubt it. So a guy like this could do it all day long and unless he finally causes damage, injuries or death, he won't be tracked. And by then, it's too late. In my case, if I hadn't stopped in time and had gone off the road, he would have caused damage, injury or even my death and would have been unaccountable for it. There were no cars around so no witnesses...

The guy who cut you off sounds like a total nut-job.

Lucky you were able to avoid the crash, and he was also lucky that it was you, and not someone who was equally crazy as he is, or possibly armed. Sooner or later, if he insists upon continuing that sort of behaviour, he will run into someone who is.

an offence notice for an HTA infraction could be issued to the driver. Now the variables...

- are you willing to come to court and testify, should the driver challenge the offence notice?

- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

hwybear wrote:an offence notice for an HTA infraction could be issued to the driver. Now the variables...

- are you willing to come to court and testify, should the driver challenge the offence notice?

- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

Thanks for responding hwybear.

1. I certainly would be willing to testify.

2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).

Is there a statute of limitations for charging this driver? And what would be the specific HTA infraction?

And just to show how serious I take this, he's an exact example in BC, of what happened to me, except the driver ending up killing the person he "tried to scare":

G35Dalf wrote:

hwybear wrote:

- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).

The problem if you lost sight of the vehicle, prior to police stopping the person, how does one prove that is one and the same driver that committed the offence that you are going to be a witness to.

It does not matter what offence you witness...stop sign, stop light, unsafe lane change, use of cellphone etc... offences can be laid, if there is a witness willing to testify, should the person challenge the ticket.

hwybear wrote:

G35Dalf wrote:

hwybear wrote:

- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).

The problem if you lost sight of the vehicle, prior to police stopping the person, how does one prove that is one and the same driver that committed the offence that you are going to be a witness to.

It does not matter what offence you witness...stop sign, stop light, unsafe lane change, use of cellphone etc... offences can be laid, if there is a witness willing to testify, should the person challenge the ticket.

Ah, gottcha. No, I never lost sight of him but this is now moot, since it's in the past. If I were to call police now, is there a time limit to when a charge could be laid and what HTA infraction occurred in this instance?

Thank you for the info, btw.

Actually, after rethinking this, once I stopped following him and then if I had called the police, what would stop him from stating exactly that - "he wasn't the person driving at that time"? Thus, unless I had continued to follow him and managed to attract a PC, I could only then claim that he was the actual driver that cut me off, in a deliberate and very dangerous manner... so what recourse is there really?