“Enough Is Enough”

I just have to vent about this...

My wife and I bought a moped for our son who recently turned 16 and got his M1, he uses it to get to school, his girlfriends and his Saturday afternoon job. When we registered and insured it we put everything in my name because the deal with him was that if he messed up at school, drove like a maniac etc etc we would pull the plug and sell it which of course would be real easy to do since I'm the legal owner of it. Now the thing is I don't have an M licence of any kind and just about every time he's been out on this thing he's been stopped and the reason given for the stops is that it was noticed that it was registered to a person without the proper licence required to operate a moped. It's getting really annoying and has caused him to be late for school and work on 5 occasions! I mean you'd almost think that if a cop spots a kid on a moped that's registered to a 48 year old man and it's not been reported stolen that he or she might just think for a moment that hey maybe mom and dad bought their son a moped to get around on! Like damn here's a kid just getting mobile and he's getting stopped left right and center and myself I haven't been stopped in over 18 years! It's ridiculous!

I check a lot of plates and if the owner of any vehicle is "unlicenced" or an "improper licence class" I will be conducting a stop to check the licence status of whoever is driving, whether it is a 16yr old or 70 yr old.

There was a guy on here before who was getting pulled over alot in his neibourhood. He called the police station and spoke with a captain or something and has no more issues with it. Maybe if you call the police station and ask to speak to a staff sargent or captain and explain your situation it may help. I think in the other guys situation the ploice have some bulliten come up with a small note when an officer runs his plate.

Good luck.

beleafer81 wrote:or captain

That is a rank in the USA, not Canada...FYI

Some developments:

Instead of walking into the Police station and Voicing my concerns with a low level officer I decided to write a 2 page Essay of my experiences with 31 Division portal cops titled " Suspicion vs. Abuse of Power : The Failure of 31 Division" and paid Canada Post to hand deliver it to Unit Commander: Superintendent, 2nd in Charge: Inspector and the Toronto Star, I made sure the cops clearly saw that cc. was the Toronto Star. I expressed the letter on Canada post with their "priority next am" service.

In the letter I criticized the police for their unprofessional nature, harassment and pointless frequent stops. I honestly didn't think the letter would do anything, at approximately 2:18pm this afternoon, my cell phone rings and caller ID says " Toronto Police", to my surprise my letter reached the Unit Commander and he wanted to discuss my concerns, he kept emphasizing that his goal was to make sure that public had confidence in his division and he was alarmed I sent a copy to the Toronto Star. We had a good 20 minute talk and he admitted that his officers where " over-doing" their jobs and he would personally request that they lay off me, if they don't have strong suspicion of wrong doing. Overall he sounded sincere and we'll see what happens, haven't been pulled over yet.

The cops followed me last night on Finch East towards Hwy 400 south but no traffic stop, I guess the Unit Commander's orders to leave me alone was obeyed.

That was nexgen. It seems that a well versed letter to the superintendent and local newspaper will make you well heard.

hwybear wrote:I check a lot of plates and if the owner of any vehicle is "unlicenced" or an "improper licence class" I will be conducting a stop to check the licence status of whoever is driving, whether it is a 16yr old or 70 yr old.

Ditto! I call that investigative policing. The good news is that there are probably only a hand full of officers on the different shifts who patrol the area in question so eventually they'll probably all learn the person and vehicle and stop stopping him.

hwybear wrote:

beleafer81 wrote:or captain

That is a rank in the USA, not Canada...FYI

Sure, but you get my point.

beleafer81 wrote:There was a guy on here before who was getting pulled over alot in his neibourhood. He called the police station and spoke with a captain or something and has no more issues with it. Maybe if you call the police station and ask to speak to a staff sargent or captain and explain your situation it may help. I think in the other guys situation the ploice have some bulliten come up with a small note when an officer runs his plate.

Good luck.

Yeah that seems like the best/only approach if there's that many officers working in the area that they aren't going to get the clue on their own?

I'd personally expect the issue to resolve itself as the officers can't look stupendously brilliant pulling over someone twice for the same thing when the first time it was a non-issue?

In fact I would say you might have a case for harassment if the same officer continued to check repeatedly when your son has demonstrated that he is compliant.

So if the issue doesn't self resolve, and a phone call to the local stations doesn't help, I'd get someone with a bit more clout to call and inquire. I have a long time friend who's a Toronto lawyer and he does a stupendous job of calling on my behalf to "inquire" on topics such as this. Works wonders, especially if I am at all upset and not cool-headed.

Lex87 wrote:

Yeah that seems like the best/only approach if there's that many officers working in the area that they aren't going to get the clue on their own?

There are 32 officers on 4 platoons where I work, I do not know who my coworkers stop on my shift, let alone the other 3 platoons. All I know of my coworkers stop is where their location is should they need backup, that is it. We stop at least 10-30 vehicles a shift. I have stopped vehicles 15min later after a coworker stopped the same one, however the person chose to commit an offence again.

So I would really like to see this magic clue box you speak of.

And so far as putting a note on a computer record...those records only last 72hrs...

So if an officer in Toronto runs a plate, all that I'll see if I run it here is if it's been run in the past 72 hrs.

I see no problem with an officer running plates, not with 265,000 suspended drivers in Ontario, they should be running everything all the time.

Makes you wonder how your son gets all this attention?

FyreStorm wrote:

I see no problem with an officer running plates, not with 265,000 suspended drivers in Ontario, they should be running everything all the time.

Agreed, non compliant drivers and vehicles need to be taken off the road and I hope that plate recognition setup the OPP was or is testing works out. Hope Ontario finally gets the uninsured vehicles project thing sorted out too or introduces public insurance with rates that even the poorest people can afford.

FyreStorm wrote:Makes you wonder how your son gets all this attention?

Rides to school, work, his friends with the occasional trip to the mall. Last time he was uptown an officer called while he had him stopped to verify we knew he was using it. When I asked why he was stopped the reason given was "routine check". All I know is he won't be getting stopped for speeding, the thing struggles to hit anything over 40 km/h

I really don't get it tho, I mean it's a moped! I have company trucks driven by my guys...no routine stops for them and my brother in law drove my wifes rusty old van for 7 months without a stop. Her old van was registered, insured and plated in her name too and with a pony tail plus full facial hair he most certainly wouldn't be mistaken for the registered owner right. One of my son's classmates has one of those electric scooters that looks identical to a gas powered one, it has no licence plate and he rides it everyday but yet he's never been stopped

This may sound like an odd solution, but try getting your M1? If you just take the test, it costs around $17.50 and is a written test very similar to a G1.

If they stop pulling him over, you'll know for sure that it was the only reason he was being pulled over.

Also - I know people with suspended licenses for DUI's who lean towards electric scooters and mopeds for transportation, which is expressly prohibited by the CCC. Cops might be checking for this as well.

If you get your M1 and he stops getting harassed, consider getting a bike, they are incredibly fun and safe if you wear proper gear and of course, take a ministry approved motorcycle training course or two. Two birds with one stone there

If you get the M1 and he keeps getting pulled over, perhaps there's more to his situation?

Agreed, non compliant drivers and vehicles need to be taken off the road and I hope that plate recognition setup the OPP was or is testing works out. Hope Ontario finally gets the uninsured vehicles project thing sorted out too or introduces public insurance with rates that even the poorest people can afford.

As a former BC resident, I can tell you for certain that insurance is cheaper under a public system. As for better, well... let's just say I have heard some horror stories about ICBC, and leave it at that!

But don't anybody hold their breath - it would be a miracle if Ontario went 'public.'

fourmat wrote:Agreed, non compliant drivers and vehicles need to be taken off the road and I hope that plate recognition setup the OPP was or is testing works out. Hope Ontario finally gets the uninsured vehicles project thing sorted out too or introduces public insurance with rates that even the poorest people can afford.

As a former BC resident, I can tell you for certain that insurance is cheaper under a public system. As for better, well... let's just say I have heard some horror stories about ICBC, and leave it at that!

But don't anybody hold their breath - it would be a miracle if Ontario went 'public.'

I doubt public insurance will happen in Ontario. However, it is popular out west and I know people who's primary residences are in the western provinces and their sports car/motorcycle insurance costs are a fraction of what one would pay in Ontario.

Some of the public insurance departments in some of those provinces are actually testing a pay-as-you-drive insurance program right now. The driver has a "little black box"- type device installed in their vehicle that can monitor and read out speed, engine info and driving behavior based on GPS and OBD2 diagnostic information, and then wirelessly relay this information back to the insurer who will use this data to calculate their risk and therefore, their premium for the month/year/term.

It's pretty cool, and would be perfect for mature, experienced, normal drivers, provided they don't have an insanely long commute. Part of it bases on the insurance calculation that no matter how good a driver you are, the longer you spend on the roads, the more statistically probable you are to be involved in a MVC.

My view on this probably won't be popular, but it comes from having plenty of relatives and friends who have dealt with both systems. Public insurance has lower rates for drivers, but they also have lower payouts for people who get injured (substantially lower). ICBC had a particularly insidious advertisement, where they showed how they treated younger drivers the same as more experienced drivers, with the same rates. Sounds great, but what they didn't say was that they only covered a fraction of the damage to the vehicle for younger drivers. In other words, if you crash as a young driver in BC, you are toast. That may have changed recently, but that was how they did things.

Public or private, you get what you pay for. Public insurance is great, if you don't have a crash. If you do have a crash, it's better to have private insurance.