“How Much Trouble Am I In?”

Back on august 28th around 7 40 in the morning I got pulled over by a cop in a car that was not legally registered for the road yet, Stupid as it was i was literally just taking it for a drive on my street because it was sitting for so long My street is a residential street so i didn't think i cop would be turning on it anytime soon. But of course i got unlucky. He got me gave me 3 tickets. By the way this is in Cambridge. Now these 3 tickets he gave me are unusual ones because of the fact that there are no fines attached just court dates for tomorrow October 21st. These are the 3 tickets :

1) Fail to apply for permit on becoming owner, highway traffic act 11(2)

2)Fail to surrender insurance card, Compulsory automobile insurance act 3(1)

3) Use plates not authorized for Vehicle, Highway traffic act 12 (1) (D)

Now the yeah i don't like the cop for pulling me over but in a sense I think he gave me a break because he could of charged me with no insurance but he didn't. Yes the car is mine but its not in my name yet because its 20 years old and to do that i need to get an appraisal on it first, and the plates that were on it were my plates just not registered to that car.

So basic question is how screwed am I is there any chance I can get out of this?

I think I smell burning rubber and it ain't from no tires.......................

what the hell does that mean?

Why did he stop you in the first place?

You say the offence took place on August 28. On what date did you buy the car?

Provision of the HTA that do not indicate a fine are subject to s. 214.

Section 214(1) provides for fines ranging from $60 to $500. Section 214(2) provides for a fine of not more than $50.

The decision is in the discretion of the judge of what the fine will be; which is why the officer did not include the fine amount on the ticket. There is nothing unusal about it.

You have three offences.

One is subject to s. 214(1). From $60 to $500.

One is under the Insurance Act and the fine is no more than $400.

The offence under s 12 provides for a fine ranging from $100 to $1,000. It also includes a possible term of imprisonment, and the persons licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months.

This is an absolute liability offence and the term of imprisonment violates s. 7 of the Charter and is unenforceable. A judge can strike down the term of imprisonment and the remaining portion becomes valid and enforceable. But as we speak, the term of imprisonment applies thus the provision is unconstitutional and of no force and effect in accordance with s. 52 of the Constutitional Act 1982.

Thus, if the judge threw the book at you the maximum fines are $1,900 for all three offences.

You need to plead not guilty. You will force the judge to change the law with respect to s. 12. You will become a Canadian hero.

General penalty

214. (1) Every person who contravenes this Act or any regulation is guilty of an offence and on conviction, where a penalty for the contravention is not otherwise provided for herein, is liable to a fine of not less than $60 and not more than $500. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 214 (1).

for pedestrian offences

(2) Despite subsection (1), every person, while a pedestrian or a person in a wheelchair, who contravenes Part X or any regulation made thereunder, is guilty of an offence and on conviction, where a penalty for the contravention is not otherwise provided for herein, is liable to a fine of not more than $50. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 214 (2).

Re-issue of permit

11(2) Every person shall, within six days after becoming the owner of a motor vehicle or trailer for which a permit has been issued, apply to the Ministry, on the form provided therefor, for a new permit for the vehicle. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 11 (2).

Violations as to number plates

12. (1) Every person who,

…

(d) uses or permits the use of a number plate upon a vehicle other than a number plate authorized for use on that vehicle;

is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more than thirty days, or to both, and in addition the persons licence or permit may be suspended for not more than six months. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 12 (1).

Operator to carry insurance card

3. (1) An operator of a motor vehicle on a highway shall have in the motor vehicle at all times,

(a) an insurance card for the motor vehicle; or

(b) an insurance card evidencing that the operator is insured under a contract of automobile insurance,

and the operator shall surrender the insurance card for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 3 (1).

Excluded driver to carry insurance card

(2) Despite subsection (1), an operator of a motor vehicle who is named as an excluded driver under the contract of automobile insurance under which the vehicle is insured shall have in the vehicle at all times an insurance card evidencing that the operator is a named insured under another contract of automobile insurance, and the operator shall surrender the insurance card for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 3 (2).

Offence

(3) A person who contravenes this section is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $400. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.25, s. 3 (3); 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (7).

I really have no idea why the cop pulled me over, I was driving normally, He must of just ran the plates, So the best thing to do is say not guilty? Also i was wondering if the cop does not show up to this does that mean it will get thrown out? and if i say not guilty wouldn't the judge ask me why i think that what would i say?

You need to plead not guilty. I think you're only entering a plea tomorrow and setting a trial date. We'll help you walk your way through this.

On wat date did you buy the car?

You need to make a disclosure request so you can see why you were stopped and what evidence they will use against you.

Oh okay i understand,

I didn't actually buy the car. I got it for free from a family friend. This was late April early may around that time is when i got it. The only reason I have not put it in my name is because the car is a 1988 buick and the ministry of transportation said i need to get an appraisal on it before they can allow that. I can't afford to do that at the moment so hence why I left it as is. But i do have the bill of sale for it so it still proves its my car and so on.

So tomorrow I would show up at 9 am tell the judge not guilty ask him or her for a disclosure request to find out why i was pulled over?

Then what? I am only 19 i only have my G2 so all this stuff is fairly new to me.

I greatly appreciate this help you are giving me lawmen.

If you didn't buy the car how can you have a bill of sale?

You haven't been to court on this at all yet right?

In other words, you haven't pleaded not guilty yet?

Tomorrow you will only enter a plea. You set the trial date.

The judge needs to help you and make sure you understand. You can ask the judge to order the Crown provide you disclosre but he will most probably tell you to put the request to the Crown in writing.

No i have not been to court at all tomorrow is the when the ticket says to show up. What i mean by bill of sale is a paper stating he gave me the car or it may say he sold it to me for like 100 bucks. Not entirely sure as i don't have it with me at the moment.

But no matter what if I win or lose this i can't get a fine of more then 1900?

Yes, maximum fines of $1900. Minimum fines $161. Plus you could lose your licence or permit for 6 months. But no jail time.

Unreachable wrote:what the hell does that mean?

It means you're going to take it hard.......unless you get lucky with the JP or prosocutor.............

Unreachable, the maximum fines you will face is $1,400; not $1,900.

The offence under HTA s. 12 does provide for a fine from $100 to $1,000, however, under s. 12 of the Provincial Offences Act, which governs your trial, you can only face a maximum fine of $500 because the offence was commenced by way of a ticket under Part I of the Act.

Moreover, where in the opinion of the court exceptional circumstances exist so that to impose the minimum fine would be unduly oppressive or otherwise not in the interests of justice, the court may impose a fine that is less than the minimum or suspend the sentence.

Further, if you cannot afford to pay you can apply to take part in the fine option program whereby you work off the fine instead of paying it.

Further still, if you do not pay the fine within 15 days you are in default and if the justice is satisfied that the person who has defaulted is unable to pay the fine within a reasonable period of time, the justice may, in exceptional circumstances, reduce the amount of the fine or order that the fine does not have to be paid.

Consequences of conviction

Penalty

12. (1) Where the penalty prescribed for an offence includes a fine of more than $500 or imprisonment and a proceeding is commenced under this Part, the provision for fine or imprisonment does not apply and in lieu thereof the offence is punishable by a fine of not more than the maximum fine prescribed for the offence or $500, whichever is the lesser. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.33, s. 12 (1).

Provision for minimum penalty

59. (1) No penalty prescribed for an offence is a minimum penalty unless it is specifically declared to be a minimum.

Relief against minimum fine

(2) Although the provision that creates the penalty for an offence prescribes a minimum fine, where in the opinion of the court exceptional circumstances exist so that to impose the minimum fine would be unduly oppressive or otherwise not in the interests of justice, the court may impose a fine that is less than the minimum or suspend the sentence.

Inability to pay fine

68(15) If the justice is satisfied that the person who has defaulted is unable to pay the fine within a reasonable period of time, the justice may,

(a) grant an extension of the time allowed for payment of the fine;

(b) require the person to pay the fine according to a schedule of payments established by the justice;

(c) in exceptional circumstances, reduce the amount of the fine or order that the fine does not have to be paid. 1993, c. 31, s. 1 (26).