“144 (9)”

I was ticketed last night at 10:45pm southbound on 427 turning right on The Queensway, the cop was standing on the sidewalk around the corner, his car was not visible. As it was late at night and I was taking an unfamiliar route I did not notice the no right turn sign (graphics only no writing). I have not had a ticket in 35 years and there were no cars on The Queensway. Should I plead leniency to a non moving violation or just pay the ticket and take the 2 demerit points. I hate the idea of pleading guilty and loosing the points.

I'd suggest picking option 3 and filing a Notice of Intent to Appear. You should be able to plea-bargain it down to a municipal by-law infraction, which would not affect your driver record (and your insurance).

Thanks...I will post the results.

Court date was May 18. I decided to plead not guilty, as I did not see the Cop there, I had my little speal ready if he was.

I was called up, pleaded not guilty, the judge called for the Constable, no response, case dismissed. Well worth my trip to the Courthouse.

Great website....Thanks

kapikog wrote:I was ticketed last night at 10:45pm southbound on 427 turning right on The Queensway, the cop was standing on the sidewalk around the corner, his car was not visible. As it was late at night and I was taking an unfamiliar route I did not notice the no right turn sign (graphics only no writing). I have not had a ticket in 35 years and there were no cars on The Queensway. Should I plead leniency to a non moving violation or just pay the ticket and take the 2 demerit points. I hate the idea of pleading guilty and loosing the points.

Hi all,

Today I was also ticketed at the same location but at 9:10am from southbound on 427 turning right on to Queensway. Except there was an black unmarked cop car on the side of the road, not sure if he was OPP or not. I am from Windsor Ontario, coming to Toronto for a job for I am a contractor. I got the 144(9) proceed contrary to sign at intersection ticket, except when I got to the lights it was a Red light so stopped but when i decided to move up the Queensway light hit amber then i started to turn. So both intersecting lights were Red at the time. I would like to know what kinda defense I can put up in court so that I do not get 2 demerit points and possibly receive a lower fine. I was reading thru the forum and came across http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1287.html I was hoping to use his advice to use (option 3) so that I can request for the disclosure and delay my trial date. In hopes that I may request for adjournment because of due to the lack of full disclosure and "any person charged with an offence has the right speedy trial" strategy.

Please help me out with any suggestions for it is greatly appreciated.

Whether this is reasonable defense, or perhaps you have another approach.

The above suggestions seem sensible to me.

I was reading thru the forum and came across http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1287.html I was hoping to use his advice to use (option 3) so that I can request for the disclosure and delay my trial date. In hopes that I may request for adjournment because of due to the lack of full disclosure and "any person charged with an offence has the right speedy trial" strategy.

I just went through this process, and it seems to me you don't quite understand it, so I'll make a couple of notes:

You have to request disclosure a certain amount of time before your court date (do a search on the forum/internet, I think it's somewhere around 4-8 weeks before hand). If you give the courts enough notice and they fail to provide it in time, or provide it in time but don't give you enough to go over it properly (i.e. 1 or 2 days before your trial date), then you can request that the trial date be adjourned to a later date, and it (should) be the courts fault (make sure that they note it as delay to the fault of the courts).

If you wait till a week before, then request it, then ask for an adjournment because you didn't get it in time, the onus will be placed on you, and won't make a difference when filing an 11b to get the case thrown out. Any delay by you doesn't count towards that. With regards to requesting again for full disclosure because you think something's missing, not sure if that will work with a disobey sign. If they send the officer's notes, what else is there? With a speeding ticket from a radar trap it might work, if they don't send you proof that the radar gun was properly calibrated, etc but here I'm not so sure what other evidence they'd have to send?

Most cases, they'll offer you a plea with no points.

manwithaplan wrote:The above suggestions seem sensible to me.

I was reading thru the forum and came across http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1287.html I was hoping to use his advice to use (option 3) so that I can request for the disclosure and delay my trial date. In hopes that I may request for adjournment because of due to the lack of full disclosure and "any person charged with an offence has the right speedy trial" strategy.

I just went through this process, and it seems to me you don't quite understand it, so I'll make a couple of notes:

You have to request disclosure a certain amount of time before your court date (do a search on the forum/internet, I think it's somewhere around 4-8 weeks before hand). If you give the courts enough notice and they fail to provide it in time, or provide it in time but don't give you enough to go over it properly (i.e. 1 or 2 days before your trial date), then you can request that the trial date be adjourned to a later date, and it (should) be the courts fault (make sure that they note it as delay to the fault of the courts).

If you wait till a week before, then request it, then ask for an adjournment because you didn't get it in time, the onus will be placed on you, and won't make a difference when filing an 11b to get the case thrown out. Any delay by you doesn't count towards that. With regards to requesting again for full disclosure because you think something's missing, not sure if that will work with a disobey sign. If they send the officer's notes, what else is there? With a speeding ticket from a radar trap it might work, if they don't send you proof that the radar gun was properly calibrated, etc but here I'm not so sure what other evidence they'd have to send?

Most cases, they'll offer you a plea with no points.

Honestly I dont really care about the $110 dollars fine, if i can get out of this with a plea of no demerit points im happy. Since I have 14 days to reply a response in which option I would like to take. Should I go to the court and pick option 3 and file for notice of intention to appear in court, ASAP? Plus the longer I can delay this the better, because I wish to keep this from the insurance company for as long as possible.

and thanks for the quick response.

torontian wrote:

Honestly I dont really care about the $110 dollars fine, if i can get out of this with a plea of no demerit points im happy. Since I have 14 days to reply a response in which option I would like to take. Should I go to the court and pick option 3 and file for notice of intention to appear in court, ASAP? Plus the longer I can delay this the better, because I wish to keep this from the insurance company for as long as possible.

and thanks for the quick response.

Pick option 3 (which is the trial option). Option 2 is pointless, if you're going to go into court you might as well fight it, incase the cop doesn't show up, they run out of time, or you don't get the disclosure in time. For the latter two, you can use that as your basis to file an 11b later.

From what others have said on this forum, you can talk to the court person (can't remember name specifics, sorry lol) when you sign in, and see if they'd be will to offer you a deal (which is what my P/L did for me, though of course I refused, since we could have the trial pushed on their onus).

This is also a good point:

Radar Identified wrote:I'd suggest picking option 3 and filing a Notice of Intent to Appear. You should be able to plea-bargain it down to a municipal by-law infraction, which would not affect your driver record (and your insurance).

One more thing to think of, don't contact the court to find out when your date it. I made the mistake of asking the secretary at my P/L firm if they'd heard from the court, so she decided to call them and find out. My trial date came promptly in the mail a couple weeks after that