“80 In A 60, Disclosure Not Very Helpful”

Thank you again everyone...I'm still deciding on the appeal route and if I will take it. I'm writing up the stuff I would need to submit so if I do choose appeal, I will be ready. I think I will prepare everything then get a consult from a professional and see what they think, if it's worth it or not. I cannot thank you enough for your help from the beginning of this whole process!!

I did have one question though: in my "appeal" searches, it brought me to the POINTTS site and they have a statement there that says, "We can notify the Ministry of Transportation to have the conviction and the demerit points removed from your driving record until the appeal is finished." How is this possible if everywhere else I saw (including Government sites) that the conviction shows on your record UNTIL/UNLESS the charges are reversed, so how do these guys manage to have it disappear until the end of appeal?? That's very appealing to me, if it's true...

bee_bee wrote:Thank you again everyone...I'm still deciding on the appeal route and if I will take it. I'm writing up the stuff I would need to submit so if I do choose appeal, I will be ready. I think I will prepare everything then get a consult from a professional and see what they think, if it's worth it or not. I cannot thank you enough for your help from the beginning of this whole process!!

I did have one question though: in my "appeal" searches, it brought me to the POINTTS site and they have a statement there that says, "We can notify the Ministry of Transportation to have the conviction and the demerit points removed from your driving record until the appeal is finished." How is this possible if everywhere else I saw (including Government sites) that the conviction shows on your record UNTIL/UNLESS the charges are reversed, so how do these guys manage to have it disappear until the end of appeal?? That's very appealing to me, if it's true...

I've received conflicting information in regards to that, as I've done been through the appeal process myself. Basically, after you file for appeal - they will usually (or at least they have to me) give you a number to call the Ministry of Transportation to let them know you're appealing. You then call that number, and they ask you to fax over your notice of appeal, and proof of payment of transcripts and fine(s). Now, after that step - I can't comment 100% what happens, because I've never been bothered to confirm. To summarize, I've heard conflicting reports - if you want the full story, read on.

Long story:

Basically, when I did it, what happened was... the lady (who worked at the court), told me to call that number and tell the ministry I'm appealing so it "doesn't show up on my record" (her exact words). I called the number (by the way, NOTE - if you do this, have a lot of free time. They've never picked up before putting me on hold for at least 25 minutes, sometimes up to an hour) and they told me, as mentioned earlier, fax them my notice of appeal, receipts for both my transcript and fine. I hung up, and did that...

I called back a few days later, after being on hold for 35-ish minutes, they pick up and I ask if they got all my documents, they said they have but they contacted the court and are waiting to confirm everything, so I left it at that. Anyway, so my insurance renewal came up around a year later, at that time my appeal was still on-going, (appeal waits are long, mine was about a year at the time). I decided to fork over the 35 minutes and call them again before renewing in case my insurance companies decided to run my records this time, after the incredibly long wait - a lady picks up and I ask her if the ticket is still on my record for insurance purposes. She told me it's there, but it says "appealing" under it. So, I asked her what I tell insurance companies if they ask if I've received a ticket? She said "I'd tell them about it, and say you're appealing because it's still on your record".

From then on, I always assumed that it meant that it's still on your record but it says appealing under it. Anyway, a few months later I won my appeal and contacted the ministry to see if it had been cleared from my record yet as I wanted to make sure it actually is erased from my record at some point. The lady told me "Yes, it's not on your record because it says you're appealing - but no, the court hasn't given us the ruling yet". So, this lady made it seem like the insurance companies cannot see it on the record and the whole appealing thing (under your conviction) is just an administrative note for the Ministry. Anyway, I never bothered to call back again and get a decisive answer - as I've heard conflicting information, but if Pointss claims that, then I would presume that it is actually off your record, but they're not doing anything special. As soon as you appeal, usually they'll give you the number to call, if they don't, just ask - and you can do the exact same thing they do for you - now whether or not insurance companies will still see it while it says appealing, or it disappears, I cannot say.

Generally, at least in Criminal law, when you appeal you have to make an order to stay the charges pending the appeal - so in that aspect it would still be on your record unless otherwise stated, but this is a provincial offence, and it would be expensive, and resource consuming for a Judge to hear every person wanting it to stay off their record for an appeal, so this may be the alternative for provincial offences... but, I can't say definitively one way or the other... but by the wording of what Pointss claims "notify the Ministry", that's exactly the same thing you do when they give you the number to call, so they're not doing anything you can't do for free - the only hassle is the 30-60 minute wait times.

Thank you Sonic!!