“Hta Or Bylaw? Carrying Points?”

Long story short... yesterday around 5:45pm, I was heading home from the grocery store, bus cut in front of me, so I turned a way I never go. It was quiet around for traffic had passed. Approached a side road, made sure no cars/not a one way/no kids/etc. and turned left from the main road. Cop lights up behind me and tells me I turned during the 3-6pm period that the signs say.

They DO say that, I checked, but they are very blended and with a 4 lane road, far apart, so that you only see them if you're stopped and looking closely for a long time, or already began to turn. I honestly did not see them and I was looking everywhere, as I am a very cautious driver.

I told him I honestly think the signs were not placed properly and not in proper view. I SAW him waiting at the corner, so obviously if the signs were more visible, I would never have turned there. Anyways, he ticketed me with "Disobey sign directing traffic" contrary to "By-law 9148" of our city. He was very confusing, mentioned something about the HTA and no points associated with this ticket. $125. Told me "do not pay it, instead get a early meeting and they'll take care of it for you" (??!).

I've talked to about 10 different cops and paralegals. A few have told me there are 2 points with this by-law, a few were unsure about by-laws, all of them told me to fight it because that corner has had many issues with the signs blending in and cops stake out there all the time because they know it's too hard.

One looked deep into it, and said there is nothing that goes on a record or driver's abstract, and essentially acts as like parking ticket, in that insurance won't see anything, and my record will still be clean. My friend who is an officer said he has never seen a by-law ticket show up when he looks at records..?

I'm confused because I've heard many different things. Does anyone know A. does this show up on any records (abstract, 3 year, etc.), and will it affect insurance? Or is it just a fee like a parking ticket that goes away when you pay it?

Also, any recommendations for fighting it / ANY chance getting it thrown out? I know it sounds stupid saying I didn't see it, but I saw at least 5 other cars stopped after too for not seeing the sign. It blends with the bus stop, and on days like yesterday where it's overcast and getting darker, it was hard to spot if you're approaching and turning left while concentrating on incoming traffic.

I just really feel like an idiot, my record of 11 years was clean and was excited to finally get my own car (driving my husband's).

In Toronto - a bylaw conviction will show up on your driving record. In Ottawa, it will not.

There are no points associated with any City bylaws in Ontario.

Theoretically a prohibited turn bylaw infraction should add 2 points to your driving record. However, in reality I've noticed that the system for reporting bylaw infractions to MTO doesn't seem to work very well and they are often not reported. For example I got a no turn bylaw infraction ticket in Toronto in 2009. 8 months later I ordered a copy of my driving record and it was not on there. So whether it will show on your driving record or not comes down to how diligent your city is in reporting bylaw tickets to MTO.

karra wrote:There are no points associated with any City bylaws in Ontario.

That's incorrect.

There are some bylaw offences where demerit points can be applied the same as if you were charged under the HTA. The only saving grace as Daggx points out is that not all municipalities seem to report them as required. The list of applicable offences can be found under the demerit points O Reg (339/94) of the HTA.

Link: http://www.canlii.org/en/on/laws/regu/o ... 39-94.html

I believe the list applicable bylaw offences where demerit points can be applied include speeding, failing to stop for a stop sign and prohibited turns.

Thanks everyone. The thing I found interesting when discussing with paralegals was that they all said prohibited turn was associated with points; however, when looking at my ticket, they all mentioned the ticket does not say that. It says disobey sign directing traffic, so they said that's why it will not carry points.

Has anyone gotten this charge thrown out? Again, I hate the idea that it's on my record for life now for something so minor.