“112 Reduced To 104km/h In A 80km Zone”

Hi Everyone,

First off, Thank you for all the input and advice you've given to everyone on this forum. It is incredible.

I received a ticket for speeding 112Km in an 80km zone. The officer reduced the ticket to 104Km/hr and also coded my ticket with an R. There were 3 cars directly in front of me going significantly faster than I was while the OPP officer was passing by us on the other side. I happened to be the last car in the row that he decided to pullover. He was able to turn around and decided to pull me over.

I've decided to fight the ticket but any advice would be great.

Thank you!

So first of all remember that if you were going even 81km/h then you do NOT want to take the witness stand and do NOT want to testify against yourself. You only want to take the stand and give testimony if you can honestly say you were not speeding at all. So given that you are probably not going to testify, one way you can win this is by cross-examing the officer and getting officer to admit that there were other cars in front of you going faster than you and that it is possible the radar picked them up and not you. But you need disclosure before anything else anyways to decide how you can fight it.

WHAT SHOULD I DO? HOW DO I FIGHT MY TICKET?

Regardless of how simple or complex the charge is (from parking tickets to DUI), you have the RIGHT to a fair trial and a RIGHT to see the evidence they have against you. Even if you admit to doing whatever you were charged with, you still have these rights.

So my advice is that you should plead NOT GUILTY and request a Trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial with a trial date, you can request disclosure (copy of notes of all officers involved, copy of radar/laser device manual if applicable).

Once you get the disclosure (officers notes), post them back on the forum so we can review them and give you more advice (black out any personal id info and officer id info).

You have nothing to lose by doing this, as you can still plead guilty and pay the ticket anytime up to the trial. You have everything to gain because the officers notes contain what they will testify, and if something is missing in their notes, you might be able to get the charge dropped.

SPEEDING - OFFICER LOWERED SPEED

Police in Ontario have the discretion to lower the speed on the ticket if they want. They do not have to do this, it is completely up to them. If they do lower the speed though, and you take it trial and you lose at the trial, the ticket will be raised back up to the higher speed.

Example:

- An officer pulls you over and says you were going 20 over, but drops the ticket to 15 over so it is 0 demerits instead of 3 demerits. If you go all the way to trial and then lose at the trial, you will be charged with the higher 20 over and have to pay the higher fine and get the 3 demerits. But also remember that you still have the right to a trial and the right to see the evidence/disclosure first. You can still choose to plead guilty and pay the lower 15 over ticket right up until the trial. And also remember that the 15 over 0 demerits can still cause your insurance to go up the same as if you got the 20 over 3 demerits ticket.

SHOULD I HIRE A PARALEGAL/LAWYER?

In order to save some money, you can usually do all the above steps yourself first, without the need to hire a paralegal or lawyer. Once you get the disclosure and depending on the seriousness of the charge, you can then decide whether to hire one or whether to try and fight it yourself. You can also arrange to meet with the prosecutor yourself before the trial, to see if they will offer you a plea deal. Again, there is no point in hiring a paralegal to negotiate a plea deal you can do yourself.

Points to conisder:

- Do not hire any paralegal/lawyer that suggests they can win without seeing the disclosure first.

- Only hire a paralegal/lawyer that will review the disclosure with you and suggest possible defenses to try and fight it.

- Do not hire any paralegal/lawyer that considers "negotiating a plea deal" a win. Although a plea deal might be the best choice for you, some paralegals do not try to fight at all and will only negotiate plea deals and then they say they "won".

- Do not hire any paralegal/lawyer that "gurantees a win or you don't pay" as this is illegal in Ontario.

VEHICLE INSURANCE & DEMERITS

The effects of pleading guilty to a 0 demerit charge, can still cause your insurance rates to increase for 3 years. It is important to remember that insurance companies do NOT care about demerit points. Insurance companies rate the tickets you get as either MINOR, MAJOR or SERIOUS. For each minor conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a little. For each major conviction you have, your insurance may raise your rates a lot. For each serious conviction you have, your insurance may DOUBLE your rates or even refuse to provide you with insurance at all.

For example, most speeding tickets, regardless of demerit points, are considered minor and will affect your insurance the same. Example:

- Speeding 1 over to 15 over = 0 demerit points = Considered MINOR by inusrance company.

- Speeding 16 over to 29 over = 3 demerit points = also considered MINOR by inusrance company.

- Speeding 30 over to 49 over = 4 demerit points = also considered MINOR by most inusrance companies (some may consider this MAJOR).

If you get a ticket for 1 over, it will affect your insurance exactly the same as if you got a ticket for 29 over. The insurance companies do not care about the demerits and do not care about the speed.

Moq wrote:Hi Everyone,

First off, Thank you for all the input and advice you've given to everyone on this forum. It is incredible.

I received a ticket for speeding 112Km in an 80km zone. The officer reduced the ticket to 104Km/hr and also coded my ticket with an R. There were 3 cars directly in front of me going significantly faster than I was while the OPP officer was passing by us on the other side. I happened to be the last car in the row that he decided to pullover. He was able to turn around and decided to pull me over.

I've decided to fight the ticket but any advice would be great.

Thank you!

It would be easier to fight if you weren't actually doing 112. Without admitting guilt, on a scale of 1-10, how difficult do you think this ticket is to fight?

Not a cop but I bet he picked you because:

1) he wouldn't have to pass anyone to get his mark and 2) he can say he never lost sight of you

If the cop charged the first guy in line, that person would simply state it wasn't him speeding, it was someone behind him...the second and third guy will also say that...but the OP was the last, and there was no one behind him to pin the blame on...the cop will say it was the lone motor vehicle in the radar beam at the time of the readings, that really carries a lot more weight with the JP...