“40km Over, Speeding 140km On 100km, 4 Tickets.”

Hi everyone! I been filled with anxiety and haven't slept well for a few days.

Traffic was going relatively fast and I did not notice I was going 140km/hr on the 401. A undercover SUV officer pulled me over and showed me 140km on his radar. He asked me why I was going from Toronto to Kitchener and I said to see my friend which resulted in a Covid ticket as well (I was nervous as this was my first interaction with the police and didnt explain that I was to drive my friend to get a biopsy early next morning, so I'll definitely argue this in trial with the receipt my friend gave me from the surgeon as evidence). I am an occasional driver with my dad's car and was having trouble finding the motor permit and insurance (I found in the compartment box later that day) which the officer said I can look for it, but went back to his car to issue tickets and came back to say he does not have all day. Gave me four tickets, recommended I pick option 2 for meet with prosecutor, and drove off.

In terms of option 2 (meet prosecutor) or option 3 (Trial - intend to please not guilty), if I choose option 3 for my speeding ticket, would I be given disclosure and an offer by a prosecutor or clerk before I go into trial? I understand that demerit points stay for two years from the issue date and want to delay it for insurance purposes, but do not want to forego a possible offer from meeting a prosecutor with option 2. Please help and Thank You!!

I read more posts in the forum and found that the failure to surrender my insurance card and motor permit will also affect my insurance premiums. If I pick option 2, is it only possible that both charges and fees can get lightened and not even one can be dropped? Is there any way to argue that the officer did not give me sufficient time to locate them if I chose either option 2 or 3? Any help would be appreciated!

Soulbear wrote: ↑Sat Feb 27, 2021 5:06 pm

In terms of option 2 (meet prosecutor) or option 3 (Trial - intend to please not guilty), if I choose option 3 for my speeding ticket, would I be given disclosure and an offer by a prosecutor or clerk before I go into trial?

When you request a trial, you'll wait for your "Notice of Trial" in the mail. It'll give you the date and time. Usually, these dates are months in advance. I don't know how things are working these days with the covid closures, but this is how it works under normal conditions.

From there, you can submit a disclosure request. They will not provide you with disclosure if you do not request it.

You'll need to fill out a disclosure form. There is no standard form. You can write your own, use someone else's template found online (not recommended) or use the generic forms provided by the municipalities themselves. Example, here are instruction provided by the Toronto courts including a disclosure request form that you can fill out. You'll then submit that form to the prosecutors office that corresponds to the courthouse you'll be attending.

Best case scenario, you'll receive your request before your trial date. If you do not receive anything, the prosecutor will have to answer to why that is the case. In most cases, you'll be provided with your request then and there and they will adjourn your trial to another date.

Yes, you will almost certainly be offered a deal (if there is wiggle room) when you arrive for your trial date. If you accept it, you'll plead guilty. If not, they will continue with a trial.

Soulbear wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 1:37 am

I read more posts in the forum and found that the failure to surrender my insurance card and motor permit will also affect my insurance premiums. If I pick option 2, is it only possible that both charges and fees can get lightened and not even one can be dropped? Is there any way to argue that the officer did not give me sufficient time to locate them if I chose either option 2 or 3? Any help would be appreciated!

They may drop the fail to surrender if you agree to plead guilty on the speeding. That's just one example. It'll be up to them what is offered.

Early resolution meetings are not trials. If you start making arguments, they will book you a trial and move on to the next person. They will make you an offer and you can either choose to accept it or not. That'll be it.

It does not sound like you have a valid argument on the fail to surrender. It's one of those things where you either know where it is or you don't. The officer has no obligation to wait while you sift through your papers.

Thank you Bend!! This broke student is extremely grateful for the advice.

Yes, you will almost certainly be offered a deal (if there is wiggle room) when you arrive for your trial date. If you accept it, you'll plead guilty. If not, they will continue with a trial.

The offered deal on trial date, would that be offered by a prosecutor like in option 2 - ER?

In most cases, you'll be provided with your request then and there and they will adjourn your trial to another date.

Will the trial date be automatically adjourned to another date or do I have to request it if I find the days between receiving disclosure to the trial date is not long enough?

Soulbear wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:02 am

The offered deal on trial date, would that be offered by a prosecutor like in option 2 - ER?

Yes, it's pretty much the same thing.

Soulbear wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 11:02 am

Will the trial date be automatically adjourned to another date or do I have to request it if I find the days between receiving disclosure to the trial date is not long enough?

You may have to request that there's not enough time to go over disclosure if they want to proceed with the trial. It's likely not going to be an issue based on the speeding charge.

Thank you, much appreciated. Last question. If I choose option 2 to meet with the prosecutor, does anyone know if they can throw out the failure to surrender motor permit and insurance card if I accept the speeding ticket or do they only look for pleading guilty on reduced charges for every ticket? I am hoping to have less convictions so my insurance won't get destroyed.

Update: Prosecutor offered me 129km and dropped the three other charges. I took it.

Sounds like a good deal. I'm glad things worked out reasonably well.