“Disobery Stop Sign - Fail To Stop Issued With Hospital/camh Campus”

Hi all, new member here, registered to seek support....

I was issued a ticket this morning - Disobey Stop Sign - Fail to Stop (as per HTA, Section 136 (1)(a) at my workplace, which is an open campus hospital. With stop signs and roads

I'll start from the beginning... in hopes the chronological order will provide insight (Seeking to submit Option 3 - Trial Option).

It's Friday, September 17 ... finishing the work week, felt unwell to begin with (recent psychiatric diagnosis of Situational Crisis Disorder w/ Depressed Mood) this morning. Considered calling in sick, but decided to show for this shift as the itch to leave tasks unfinished going into the weekend was heavily guilt-tripping me.

I force my 40 minute commute downtown TO and arrive to the hospital, my workplace; anxious, unwell, hurried, pull into the first lot where I usually park which entails going the first stop sign to enter. I do quickly note the police cruiser parked facing the 3-way stop intersection while driving to the 1st parking lot, but didn't think much of it due to the my workplace having frequent police presence admitting patients under forms, and already felt foggy, tunnel visioned due to feeling uwell to begin with. (Nor does this mean I would still drive recklessly if there was no police presence, point is - was he parked there to issue tickets?).

1st Parking lot was full, exit this lot. Drove past the cop, requiring to pass the 3-way stop to the 2nd parking lot. I believe I stopped but not the full 3 seconds, might have been rolling when I looked at all ways into the intersection, but I felt mentally I could not process if I did physically in fact stopped as I acknowledged the lane ways were in fact clear. I dont know... felt rushed, anxious, and low overall with intentions to show for shift. Shouldve called sick.... idk.

Lights go off, I pull over, embarassed this is even happening with hospital campus. Firmly lectures me , "I noticed your car the first time and you zipped by the first stop sign, and noticed you car again passing by zipping right through a second time".

me "I'm having a bad morning... (instincitvely said this)"

I proceeded handing him documents.

Cop comes back with a ticket in subject line. Anxiety blows right through my head, but remained composed.

Now, I don't have the cleanest record, but have been clean since March 2019. Next year would be the 3 year mark to clear x2 convictions of my insurance record. Then I get this - what do I do? Yes, I was a shitty driver, but I truly am trying to come clean.

Sos... please help me digest this. With actual facts to better my defence, as you can sense, is below amateur. I already give back to my community, and this ticket really feels like its mocking my ability to be genuinely better. I know emotions likely don't weigh a lot in court, but I felt vulnerably human today and this is unfortunately my best defence.

Thank you all in advance.

Never been to court, A personality, baseline anxious

You don't have to stop for 3 seconds. You just have to come to a complete stop. That means your tires should at some point come to a standstill, at which point you can immediately proceed as long as it's safe to do so.

I'm not sure how far you want to go with this ticket. I mean, that's up to you.

Here's the bare minimum you can do. If you've got other tickets, it's even more of a reason to request a trial. Everything is backed up right now due to the coronavirus shut downs, so it may be a year or so before your trial date.

Worst case scenario, you can plead guilty on your trial date and at least the ticket stays off your license until then.

Having three tickets within three years is going to be a killer, which is why you should at least try to space them out with a trial request. Even with three minor tickets in less than three years, you run the risk of having to look for a high risk insurance provider.

bend wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 12:50 am

You don't have to stop for 3 seconds. You just have to come to a complete stop. That means your tires should at some point come to a standstill, at which point you can immediately proceed as long as it's safe to do so.

I'm not sure how far you want to go with this ticket. I mean, that's up to you.

Here's the bare minimum you can do. If you've got other tickets, it's even more of a reason to request a trial. Everything is backed up right now due to the coronavirus shut downs, so it may be a year or so before your trial date.

Worst case scenario, you can plead guilty on your trial date and at least the ticket stays off your license until then.

Having three tickets within three years is going to be a killer, which is why you should at least try to space them out with a trial request. Even with three minor tickets in less than three years, you run the risk of having to look for a high risk insurance provider.

Thank you for your response. I am really concerned for the insurance impact, appreciate you highlighting the same…Can I request stay for my trial/ plead not guilty just by being as genuine in my description above? Or do I go throw xcopper that know the lingo and court dynamic

Ps. Any experience on what zoom virtual court room are like?

I don't think "xcopper" or the equivalent is going to benefit you all too much in your particular scenario. If you're asking whether or not you can just plead mercy and hope they decide to drop the ticket, it's not going to happen. Sometimes they can offer you a plea deal for a lesser charge. I don't believe there is an opportunity for a reduction with your particular charge. Even so, it'll still be a conviction and your insurance is going to treat it the same.

If you wish you request a trial, you'll:

- fill out a "Notice of Intention to Appear" form. You used to have to go to the courthouse for this, but you can probably do it online now in most places due to covid.

- You'll wait until you receive your "Notice of Trial." It's just a letter that has your trial date on it.

- Optional but recommended is to make a disclosure request. It's just a request to have a copy of the evidence against you. In your case, it'll likely just be the officers notes from your traffic stop. There is no official disclosure request form. You can make your own, but the municipality where you received your ticket will almost always provide a generic form right on their website for you.

You can always plead guilty on your trial date. Worst case scenario, you've spaced your convictions and it stays off your record in the meantime. Best case scenario, some miracle happens and they're not able to proceed.

It sounds like you may have been on hospital property.

If so, I’m under the impression that much of the Highway Traffic Act is unenforceable.

Maybe someone with more HTA experience could comment.

Mostly correct but not always the case. Larger malls, hospitals, campuses, etc may have an agreement that covers the main roads going through the property so they're classified as highways.

Doesn't hurt to double check though.

Yes, I just pulled into work again this morning and also noticed where the officer was parked…was in a fire route that indicates no parking, facing the 3 way stop.

The fact the officer was also parked in a fire route to issue me the ticket.. does the help me in any way?

Update****

I just confirmed with city of Toronto property surveyor that the road/intersection I was issued the ticket is a PRIVATE ROAD. How well does this hold in court?

Immediately request a trial. You've pretty much already won.

bend wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 5:56 pm

Immediately request a trial. You've pretty much already won.

Thank you to those who responded, special thanks to @bend for keeping up w my concerns. I’ll proceed with Option 3. Drive safe!