OHTA.ca

If you are sitting in a vehicle, stopped, on the roadside or on private property, and a cop pulls up and blocks your vehicle from moving, other than the HTA obligations under sec 33 to identify the driver, and provide ownership and insurance info, what obligations are there?....do I have to answer questions as to what I am am doing or why or whatever??

Do they have to provide ID ie badge number on request....I could not see one on them, or a vehicle ID number???

If you have nothing to hide, why be confrontational and non cooperative. I am sure if you are like that it will change the way they deal with you..

If you have nothing to hide, why be confrontational and non cooperative.

Because this isn't a police state where police can do / ask anything they want.

Some Officers occasionally need to be reminded of that.

WilliamWorthington3 wrote:

If you have nothing to hide, why be confrontational and non cooperative.

Because this isn't a police state where police can do / ask anything they want.

Some Officers occasionally need to be reminded of that.

Then you might get that unwated attention....

About a year ago I was on a side street doing crossword puzzles.

I looked in my rear-view and saw the cherry lights, what a surprise.

I was just sitting there not even noticing that I was pulled over.

I was in no hurry and the cop was on his way quickly .

They can ask to look but if they just search whatever they find is useless in court unless

it is something criminal "seen from out-side car "(booze/drugs/guns).

In my case he said he was checking to see if I was ok.

weird as he took another 3 minutes to approach my car.(after I noticed him).

Cheers

Viper1

Well depends on the private property. Many business have given the police agent status. So did many apartment complexes. So if you cannot provide a legitimate reason for being there you can be trespassed which is arrestable.

If you do not want to say anything best is to remain silent as that is your right. Getting confrontational could get you arrested and it would be a legal arrest. While you might not agree as long as they have status it will stand up

Ops

WilliamWorthington3 wrote:

If you have nothing to hide, why be confrontational and non cooperative.

Because this isn't a police state where police can do / ask anything they want.

Some Officers occasionally need to be reminded of that.

Nobody said it was a police state.

And the police can ask you anything in the world that they want- but that doesn't mean you have any lawful obligation to answer them. Questions that seem frivolous and unnecessary to you might be relevant to another on-going investigation that could involve a similar vehicle or similar description of yourself. Answering simple questions is very often more than enough to remove any suspicion the officer might have in his mind- and as a tax payer I'm sure you'd rather have the police focus on the actual persons of interest and have you moved right along. By being uncooperative you're only serving to complicate the investigation needlessly.

Perhaps totally irrelevant to the actual OP's topic at hand, consider this situation I was recently involved in (as a uniform police officer)...

I was on bicycle and conducted an HTA stop on a person that I noticed did not have proper bicycle equipment (light, bell, etc). This person was a visible minority. I ALSO recognized this same person as a person of interest in a recent homicide. Of course, I'm not going to divulge that information to the subject right off hand because the investigation is on-going and further information is obviously required. So I conducted the HTA stop and asked a series of questions that may or may not have had anything necessarily to do with the initial HTA stop.

The interaction between myself and this person was going well- useful information, he was polite, and so on.

Another (white) cyclist, observing the entire scenerio, began jumping up and down, waving, pointing and screaming at me because I stopped the black male as opposed to the whites. He was yelling at the top of his lungs about racism and so on and so forth... a crowd forms, cell phones come out... and here I come attempting to collect information regarding a recent homicide while some lunatic is jibber jabbing on and on about how it's a police state and how I'm racist, etc etc and encouraging the crowd to do the same.

How much useful information do you think I got from the person of interest in the homicide after the circus started? Gee... thanks for the help, citizens.

So, often when I read people's automatic, off-the-cuff 'don't answer their questions or be friendly, it's not a police state', it reminds me of situations like the one I described.... trust me, dude, the cops aren't out there to 'get ya'. Nor are they out there to harass you needlessly. We aren't asking these questions to see if you're into the same hobbies that I am and well, hey, why don't ya come over for dinner... We are trying to get a job done and, yes, granted it infrequently gets in the way of common citizens.

This reminds me of two summers ago when my friend and I got pulled over late down town in Ottawa. My friend works as a server at a 24/7 restaurant and I was picking him up at about 12 A.M. I was not too familiar with down town so I turned into a dead end street, as I turned out I noticed there were 2 cops behind me at the red light. The light turns green and there you have it, the lights come on. They pull me over telling me that my license sticker was expired (it was the 3rd of July and I forgot to renew it). He then asks why I went into the dead end street obviously accusing me of making some drug sale, I explain to him that I thought it was a way out and only realized it was a dead end once I was in there. They go back to their cars and I expect to get my ticket and move on but nope, we have a cop with Napoleon syndrome on our hands. He then tells me and my friend to step out of the car, we do so and one cop starts searching my friend and his work bag while the other places me on his car, cuffs me and then performs a search after asking if I have any sharp weapons. It was embarrassing as hell, people are walking by and I am getting treated like a criminal because of my expired license sticker and a wrong turn. After completely searching me he then tells me he is going to search the car and if I admit to having drugs in it he will take them and nothing else will happen (B.S lies of cops) he also said that if I didn't agree to the search they would bring in the dogs. I was in shock and asked him if this is how he treats people with expired license stickers and he snapped at me threatening to bring me into jail and detain me for 48 hours. I let them search my car and of course they found nothing, my God did they go through it thoroughly, like kids opening their gifts on Christmas day expecting to find that new Xbox. They found nothing and the prick then gives me all the tickets after humiliating me and my friend.

So to the guy who said "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" how would you have liked to have been in my situation? It was embarrassing and demeaning as hell. Cops are not God, this is not Soviet Russia and people have rights.

12345 wrote:

So to the guy who said "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" how would you have liked to have been in my situation? It was embarrassing and demeaning as hell. Cops are not God, this is not Soviet Russia and people have rights.

and obviously we only heard your side of this...however, if this is completely true, you should have made a complaint, other than that, don't paint all enforcement officers with that same brush!

hwybear wrote:

12345 wrote:

So to the guy who said "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" how would you have liked to have been in my situation? It was embarrassing and demeaning as hell. Cops are not God, this is not Soviet Russia and people have rights.

and obviously we only heard your side of this...however, if this is completely true, you should have made a complaint, other than that, don't paint all enforcement officers with that same brush!

I Know you are a youngster HWBEAR

40 years ago I got in my car and headed for east coast.

This is true!

I got 2 3 rivers and pulled my station wagon over and went to sleep.

agh forget it to much typeing

Cheers

Viper1

I was stopped, probably 20 years ago, on highway 20 in Montreal by the SQ. I admit, I was doing about 120km in 100km so I though it was going to be a speeding ticket. Much to my surprise, two officers exit the PC with sidearms drawn, take up strategic positions and order me out. I was definitely under a tremendous amount of stress by the possibilities unfolding before me but after answering some straightforward questions, the officers stood down and advised me to stop speeding and left quickly. An obvious identity check (my car possibly fit the description in an investigation) and I felt the officers were just doing their job, protecting both me and themselves. No harm, no foul.

So I don't understand why people are jumpy when the police are doing their job. Let them do what they need to, in the safest way possible for everyone, and get back to your life afterward. You only need to worry if you've done something wrong and in that case, you probably deserve what's coming to you.

G35Dalf wrote: You only need to worry if you've done something wrong and in that case, you probably deserve what's coming to you.

Are you kidding??? There are any number of ways that a mistake on someone else' part could cost you dearly. No one is perfect; not even a cop. It worked out okay for you which is great. But not everyone had your luck.

It might be better if procedures were put in place to minimize the possibility of mistakes.

hwybear wrote:

12345 wrote:

So to the guy who said "if you have nothing to hide then who cares" how would you have liked to have been in my situation? It was embarrassing and demeaning as hell. Cops are not God, this is not Soviet Russia and people have rights.

and obviously we only heard your side of this...however, if this is completely true, you should have made a complaint, other than that, don't paint all enforcement officers with that same brush!

I am not embellishing in any way or leaving out any points. The only other suspicion the cop could have had was that I drive an 06 GT Mustang and at the time was 19. My parents bought it for me as a birthday gift, every cop now thinks I am a drug dealer. I have been pulled over 12 times, only one of those times was for speeding, the rest were just suspicion pull overs. I never said this is how all cops behave, in fact funny enough the only cop that has been nice to me was the one who got me speeding 25 over. I was just saying that you can't just give cops power to do whatever they want because there are many bad apples in the police force who have and would abuse it. And I considered reporting it but it just wasn't worth the effort, a 19 year old coming in with the car I have and telling them that story? I can understand how it would be unbelievable to most, and all the two officers would have to say is that they did not search me and their side would be taken.

paul1913 wrote:

WilliamWorthington3 wrote:

If you have nothing to hide, why be confrontational and non cooperative.

Because this isn't a police state where police can do / ask anything they want.

Some Officers occasionally need to be reminded of that.

Then you might get that unwated attention....

Okay. So what is the polite way to say "I do not consent to give you permission to search me or my vehicle AND we both know you do not have probable cause to proceed?" Or, "I elect to exercise my right as a Canadian citizen to decline to answer questions beyond those proving my identity, qualification to drive, legal possession of the vehicle and insurance thereof?"

No one wants to escalate an unpleasant situation, but clearly people are reporting that they feel compelled to consent to a search against their will. Worse yet, there may have been simply illegal searches. How do we stop that without attracting unwated[sic] attention? How do we politely say, "Officer, please get a wtharrant as is required by the law you are sworn to uphold?"

Obviously, this does not apply to most cops. In all vocations we find well suited and less suited people.

Okay. So what is the polite way to say "I do not consent to give you permission to search me or my vehicle."?

The answer is. Do you have a search warrant?

If not. say no you cannot.

Cheers

Viper1