“What's Wrong With The Provincial Offense Court System”

Now I'm not against people in Law inforcement, and althought most of this may be obvious, there's no harm in having a discussion about it. The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is if they are..).

The government has invested a lot of money in technology to grab cash from people, but have done nothing to help innocent people make full answer to any charge. You can pay all of your parking tickets, speeding tickets or any other infractions online at, how convenient (minus the extra charges that they add on for the service). But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online? Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?

I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.

Having said that, typically people go to court to dispute charges, most walk in and settle for a plea bargain deal that the prosecutor offers them (not news to anyone on here). Seeing people come in and out like hens at a slaughter house, some of the people might actually be innocent and yet, they have no knowledge of their rights, and their fear of the whole court system results in them settling for a plea bargain deal.

Not everyone is in position to pay large sums of money hire a paralegal or lawyer to defend them, and the prosecutors, JP, officers know that. I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.

It goes without saying.. You only have rights, if you know what they are. It's just my opinion

KiX wrote: But how come you can't request a trial date to dispute the charge online?

I would guess that b/c it would be way worse than the snail mailing system, people ask for a trial, tie up court time and do not show. Maybe a $500-1000 penalty should be imposed to anyone that does not show to trial after requesting one?

Why can't the prosecutors office make it easier for defendents to request disclosure or certain documents that are vital to proving one's guilt?

I've seen no progress in terms of helping those who are "innocent until proven guilty" make full answer to any charges. All I see are huge line ups outside a Provincial offense office full of people wanting to set a trial date. The Provincial Offense office is always bottle-necked, and Prosecutors are already up to their eyeballs in people wanting to meet them in court to dispute a charge.

Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)

1) plead guilty

2) plead guilty with time to pay

3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)

4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.

I have never seen a JP stand up for the rights of an individual who has absolutely no idea what their rights are, or how to defend themself in court.

JP's will not let rights be violated.

JP's will not offer suggestions of defence

nor will JP's offer suggestions of prosecution

Maybe an alternative is the prosecution submits a willsay and so does defence and JP reads both and makes a decision.

3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)

These should be automatic, no papers to file........It's not like the idea is new in law.....might help speed things up a bit......just a thought.

hwybear wrote:Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)

1) plead guilty

2) plead guilty with time to pay

3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)

4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.

Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.

KiX wrote:The Ontario Justice system is purposely setup to generate revenue, and inconvenience citizens who want to dispute or make answer to a charge..which results in them, not willing to spend the time to prove their innocence (that is it they are..).

I agree, however the downside to that is we'd pay higher taxes, more user fees, and probably have bigger fines if we did try to make it more convenient. I know, it shouldn't be that way, but it is...

Radar Identified wrote:

hwybear wrote:Maybe a new system should be designed and pick one option online (no response in 7 days and you are found guilty)

1) plead guilty

2) plead guilty with time to pay

3) resolution court, where you try to make a resolution or then ask for trial court (waving your 11B)

4) trial court - there will be a trial, failing to attend for trial is an extra $500-1000 fee.

Good idea... one additional item... if the ticket bears a fatal error it should be tossed without having to go through this don't show up/pay/appeal/win gong show, instead of "oh we'll just amend it." Fatal errors have been pretty well spelled out by the courts so this shouldn't be too complicated.

...

that's a really good idea too

So, when do we get to make our changes????

Bear, run for office would ya.