“Speeding 129 On 80 Limit Highway”

Three days ago I was pulled over on hwy7 in perth south region.

The officer said he clocked me at 134 and threatened me with the consequences of going 50 and over.

He then said he will roll it down to 49 over so i can be charged with speeding instead.

I didn't realize i was going so much over, since it was 3am and quite dark everywhere (there are no lights)

also it is pretty much barren land with barley any trees, so it was hard to feel that I was going fast at all.

This is my first ever ticket of any sorts

what options do I have?

is there any possibility I can reduce the amount of points?

Since the officer rolled it back does that mean i'm not allowed to take this to court?

Any advice would be appreciated

That was a HUGE break saving: 7 day impoundment fees, tow fees, 7 day suspended licence, 6 demerit points, fine starting at $2000

Instead lowered to 49 over: $359.00 and 4 points

Might want to read this thread: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic1393.html

Just b/c there is a lack of trees does not make it safe even in daylight. What this usually means is farmland and collisions INCREASE every OCT-DEC. This is due to crops being removed (mainly corn) and deer living and feeding in those crops are pushed/spooked out. Hence collisions with deer are increased.

Option 1 is pay it and that's it. You will probably get an insurance increase, and you will get 4 demerit points on your driving record.

Option 2 is to plead guilty with an explanation. You would then go to court and explain why you were speeding, and then the Justice of the Peace might (but doesn't have to) lower the fine. You would still get 4 demerit points and the insurance increase regardless.

Option 3 is pleading not guilty and requesting a trial. This could go either way. There is a possibility that the officer may not show for trial, or you could win on a technicality. (Speeding cases are won on technicalities.) Or, you could plea-bargain to a lesser speed. Given that the offence occurred in Perth County, the officer will likely be there. Technicalities could happen, but I wouldn't count on them. A more likely scenario is that the Prosecutor will amend the charge to Stunt Driving - 54 km/h Over the Limit. If convicted, the minimum fine would then go to $2000, possible lengthy licence suspension, 6 demerit points, and your insurance company would likely jack your premiums WAY up (could be double or more), etc. In that case, you would be wise to seek legal representation. In this particular instance, where the officer lowered the speed to 49 over, going for a trial is fraught with peril unless you are either very familiar with the court system, or you have a paralegal/lawyer representing you.

But that's just my opinion, FWIW.

Do insurance companies judge based on how many points you get off?

or by how much you speed?

considering its my first ever offence, would they ignore something like this even if it costs me 4 points?

and also as for paralegals...

I go to school in waterloo right now

are there any suggestions for good paralegals?

and how much would one cost?

kejiang wrote:Do insurance companies judge based on how many points you get off?

or by how much you speed?

considering its my first ever offence, would they ignore something like this even if it costs me 4 points?

This is a common misconception. Insurance companies do not keep track of demerit points. They only care about convictions, collisions, and suspensions. For a very small infraction, like 15-over, they might not raise your rates, but 49-over will definitely result in an increase. It might just be a surcharge, but if you get nailed with Stunt Driving or speeding more than 50 over, your rates will go through the roof.

For paralegals, there are a number in the Ottawa area who could represent you. I am not familiar with their rates. But you can make some phone calls and see what is available.

Oh thanks

and sorry can you clarify the term "surcharge"?

since I'm not the one paying for my insurance

does that mean the monthly payment is increased? or just a one time fee?

also, If it were possible to get a reduction, to lets say 29 km/h over, would the amount of insurance increase be less?

and thank you for the paralegal suggestions but I currently reside in waterloo, and the courthouse (if i choose to go to court) is in Stratford.

That's quite far from here. Would they send someone all the way here to represent me?

Surcharge would mean your insurance is increased for the next 3 years by charging you an additional fee for the speeding ticket. 29 over would, in all likelihood, result in a lower increase.

For the paralegals - I read "Perth" and I thought Perth, Ontario - which is near Ottawa, but you'd wrote "Perth south region." That's my mistake. There are lots of paralegals in the GTA who could make the trip out to Stratford to help out.

ohh thank you

hmm do you know how likely is it for cops in the perth south region and stratford area to turn up for at court?

and also according to the new law, since I have a G2, getting charged with 30 - 49 over means 4 points and that means suspension for 30 days right?

would my insurance be even further affected by a suspension resulting from this ticket?

Okay updates:

I sent my ticket in with option 3, and 3 weeks or so later I received my trial date by mail (fast?)

The date is set to be February 1, 2011 at 10:00 am, which is quite soon...

I don't think I have a first attendance meeting either...

So anyways, I also have a sheet that says (summarized):

1. You may discuss a possible resolution of this charge with the municipal prosecutor (call in or visit during office hours).

2. you may receive a copy of the evidence on this matter by completing the form at the bottom.

3. you are also advised that it is less likely that the charges will be reduced on the day of the trial.

What would be the best course of action here then?

Is there any point in contacting the prosecutor?

Should I file for a disclosure? and if i do, do i have to drop it off at the office or mail it in?

I have called Xcoppers a few weeks ago and they turned me away. The lady said i can try asking them for help, but it'll cost like $500 and they'll probably end up pleading me guilty to the original charge.

Should i try other paralegal places?

Well depends on what you want to do... you might be able to drop in to the Prosecutor's office to get a further reduction in the speeding charge. I'd do that ASAP and see what they offer. If you get nothing other than "49 over, take it or leave it," I would suggest you just keep it "as is," and move on. Others may disagree with me, but if you can't get a reduction through First Attendance (the first option they suggested), then just pay it. Be forewarned, courts in rural Ontario have much more time to handle cases than they do in, say, Toronto. If you file for disclosure, the Prosecutor will almost certainly become aware that you were driving more than 50 km/h over the limit, and may immediately seek to amend the charge to Stunt Driving. Then you are in trouble. Approach this with a considerable amount of caution. You could try another paralegal agency, but I would think that they'd also turn you away. I think that the response you got from Xcopper was appropriate given the circumstances. Your best bet seems to be trying to negotiate a plea deal prior to the day of trial.

Thanks for the advice,

and I guess I have better chances if I go in myself?

rather calling them?

Final update:

Thanks for the help guys, I went to the prosecutor's office today. He was quite nice and changed the charge to a "disobey sign" considering it was my first ticket. But the fine remains the same (not that i mind too much), and i still have to show up in court. So yeah I think I got a lucky break for 2 points instead of 4. By the way, would a disobey sign offense affect my insurance?

Also, how would the court procedures work for this? Would they just say what i'm now charged for and I have to plead guilty? Or will the old charge still be brought up?

Well looks like you played this one perfectly. Not only did you save demerit points, it also saved you a licence suspension. 4 demerit points, as you know, would've netted you a licence suspension as you are a G2 driver. In addition, I think you'll probably get an insurance increase. HOWEVER, don't be disappointed with that. You were looking at a double-whammy insurance hit for the "49 over" and the licence suspension. You still have to pay the same fine, but you saved HUGE $$$ on your insurance bill.

What will happen is, on the day your trial was scheduled, you will go in and check in with the Prosecutor. They will say "kejiang, you are charged on or about the (whatever day it happened) in the County of Perth South, did commit the offence of disobey sign, contrary to Highway Traffic Act, section 182 (2), how do you plead?" You will then reply: "Guilty." They will say "plea of guilty, conviction is registered." Then there will be submissions as to penalty, at which point the Prosecutor will submit that, as part of the plea deal, you were agreeing to pay "x" amount of dollars. The Justice of the Peace will probably ask you if agree, you will say "I do, your Worship." And then they'll hand you a form with payment instructions.

Done and done.

Yeah being the first offense helped I guess, and meeting a nice(r) prosecutor as well.

Ok thanks a lot for all the advice and help.