“Disobey Stop Sign”

i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic Act says 3 demerit points. the ticket also says Set Fine of $85. question: if it doesnt say how many demerit points, does it mean that if i pay this fine, they wont dock my demerit points? is this worth fighting?

Unfortunately your friend is wrong. Tickets do not list demerit points, they are assigned by the Ministry post conviction.

and it's a conviction which is important (insurance wise) as opposed to the demerit points

should i fight it then? i am not sure what my line of defense could be. it may just be my word vs cops but is it good enough? forgot to mention that i have another ticket that i am fighting (date set in january) for improper lane change. i have legal representation for that, but i have not contacted them yet for this one. So, just to confirm, the demerit points are not as important as the fine itself? if i agree to pay it (reduced fine is $85, full fine is $110), it will still affect my insurance rate at renewal (just renewed it). Thanks for replying this.

may i also mention that it was issued under Highway Traffic Act by an OPP and it was on a residential street...

What I mean is, sometimes cops will give you a ticket,.... for something, then tell you, "I'll give you a break,I'll only do you for xyz instead of abc, so you' only get a smaller fine and less points"

So you think there doing you a favour, in so far as a smaller fine, "BUT" as far as insurance are concerned, a conviction is a conviction is a conviction, you DONT want a conviction on your licence,

its a good excuse to hike and also too many convictions and they will drop you...

from my observance, I understand that if it's you against the cop, they will more likely to believe the cop, because he has no reason to lie, i.e he doesn't know you and there is no malice,

that said if you can raise a doubt then you have a chance

DASHCAM's work wonders and will always prove in these situations

reminder to self, get a bloody dashcam

Dorota wrote:should i fight it then? i am not sure what my line of defense could be. it may just be my word vs cops but is it good enough? forgot to mention that i have another ticket that i am fighting (date set in january) for improper lane change. i have legal representation for that, but i have not contacted them yet for this one. So, just to confirm, the demerit points are not as important as the fine itself? if i agree to pay it (reduced fine is $85, full fine is $110), it will still affect my insurance rate at renewal (just renewed it). Thanks for replying this.

I "dont" think that would be classified as a fatal error, but someone more knowledgeable than me should be along to confirm

Dorota wrote:may i also mention that it was issued under Highway Traffic Act by an OPP and it was on a residential street...

you have potentially 2 convictions, which is not a good place to be, (insurance wise) it's either 2 or 3 convictions and there is a highly likely chance they will drop you, depending on your insurance company

Dorota wrote:should i fight it then? i am not sure what my line of defense could be. it may just be my word vs cops but is it good enough? forgot to mention that i have another ticket that i am fighting (date set in january) for improper lane change. i have legal representation for that, but i have not contacted them yet for this one. So, just to confirm, the demerit points are not as important as the fine itself? if i agree to pay it (reduced fine is $85, full fine is $110), it will still affect my insurance rate at renewal (just renewed it). Thanks for replying this.

Thanks to all that replied. by the way, the other ticket is for unsafe move, lane change so i won't know what the outcome is going to be yet as the date is in January. As for this morning's situation, i looked at the intersection where it happened and i am pretty sure, the cruiser was sitting beside the the mail box and I am pretty sure the view is quite obscured from where he was sitting, plus there are trees in the way. Am i grasping at straws here? as for my current ticket (unsafe move), my vehicle had to be fixed and i paid my deductible. the insurance already deemed me at fault based on other parties' statements and i am not getting my deductible back. Because the accident happened too close to my renewal date (accident was in September and the renewal was in October), it did not affect my insurance premium, but it can at the next renewal.

may i also mention that it was issued under Highway Traffic Act by an OPP and it was on a residential street...

A residential street is a highway as defined by the Highway Traffic Act. The OPP, or any other sworn Ontario police officer, can lay a charge anywhere in the province, not just the location they normally work at. (so a Metro Toronto officer can lay a ticket in Thunder Bay...)

Dorota wrote:(reduced fine is $85, full fine is $110)

I think you've misread the ticket. The total fine you owe (where it says total payable) should be $110. $85 is the base amount of the fine but processing fees and surcharges are added on to reach a total payable of $110.

Demerit points do not have to be listed on the ticket.

Even a charge that has 0 demerit points can still affect your insurance (insurance companies do not care about demerit points).

The Highway Traffic Act applies everywhere in Ontario including residential streets and all roads and highways.

The OPP can issue tickets anywhere in Ontario on any street/road/highway.

You should plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, request disclosure (officers notes, audio/video). Once you get the officers notes then you can decide how to fight it. The officers notes are what they will testify, so you can not plan a defense until you get these.